Items for discussion in the Iliad

• Gods:
  • These gods, at least their names, go back to Mycenaean times: we have their names attested, as well as their epithets.
  • The gods of the Iliad are mostly "sky gods"-there are few references to chthonic gods: gods of the earth religion, such as the Fates, the Keres (death spirits), Furies. Chthonic gods also include hero cults (Homer is pan-hellenic, but hero cults were mostly local and tied to tombs).
  • What the gods do seems to have no effect on the structure of the world in Homer: they are simply acting within a given structure. There are, however, references to the division of realms between Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades.
  • Longinus (On the Sublime 9.6-7), an ancient literary critic, says "As far as possible, Homer made the humans in the Iliad gods and the gods human." The gods are frivolous, whereas all the humans are not, except for Paris, who acts like a god, and is fazed by nothing. Gods are a sort of dramatic relief from the serious business of life and death.
  • A list of traits of the gods:
    • 1. Immortal
    • 2. have superior knowledge to mortals
    • 3. have superior power to mortals "superior" in the sense that Iron is superior to bronze, not in the sense that good bronze is superior to bad bronze (i.e. different in kind--like a gun versus a knife).
    • 4. better things--armor, horses, chariots, clothing, blood, food,--their things have powers like those of a D&D game--the Gorgon's head on Athena's shield can turn men to stone. Hermes' shoes' feet, are winged. their chariots don't even get wet when they go over the water (13.29-30)--cf. Hector's horses at 11.531-7 or Achilles at 20.498-502.
    • 5. essentially act like humans
    • 6. patriarchal order (x, son of...)
    • 7. aristocratic arranged around a king
    • 8. concerned about honor, but winning or losing honor to them is not really significant since they cannot lose their essential honors
    • 9 they are a foil/mirror/contrast to humans, for whom everything is limited in time, limited in
    • 10. they live on Olympus
    • 11. they never work for anything cf. 17.443-7--condition of mortals.
    • 12. They are amoral: "Moral condemnation of the essentially amoral Olympians would be as pointless as blaming them for never growing old or dying." Seth Schein "The Immortal Hero"
    • 13. They are the source and symbol of everything good for humans: strength, beauty, ability, success, honor, and glory (not possessions?--indirectly) any spearcast that is good is helped by a god any weapon that is well-made is made by a skill given by a god they give humans weapons (2.872--Pandaros got his bow from APollo)
    • 14. They are an audience--they watch what mortals do--they are an audience within the poem--cf. Hesiod's muses who sing to the gods about whom they sing.--Jasper Griffin has suggested that the gods enjoy watching the mortals in the same way that the Greeks enjoyed watching athletic competitions--cf. the "TV sports" aspects of Homer's coverage. --they are indifferent to humans suffering for the most part.--humans are pawns to them
  • Gods have a function within the social code and system: they are Protectors of things such as heralds, oaths, guest-friendship (in book 6, when Glaucus and Diomedes meet in battle and exchange armor, it is because of guest-friendship), and justice generally 1.346
    Achilles speaks to two mortal messangers
    "Welcome, heralds, the gods' messengers and men's"
    1.351
    Achilles again
    "You two are witnesses before the blessed gods."
  • Gods function as explanations. They can potentially intervene at any point, and so any occurrence can be ascribed by a human to a god.
    • Apollo rains a plague and Hera plants a thought.
      A natural process' cause and an externalization of psychology (where DO thoughts come from?).
      1.61
      Nine days the god's arrows rained death on the camp.
      On the tenth day Achilles called an assembly.
      Hera, the white-armed goddess, planted the thought in him
      Because she cared for the Greeks and it pained her
      To see them dying.
    • 1.198
      Achilles chest was a rough knot of pain
      Twisting around his heart: should he
      Draw the sharp sword that hung by his thigh,
      Scatter the ranks and gut Agamemnon,
      Or control his temper, repress his rage?
      He was mulling it over, inching the great sword
      From its sheath, when out of the blue
      Athena came, sent by the white-armed goddess
      Hera, who loved and watched over both men.
      She stood behind Achilles and grabbed his sandy hair,
      Visible only to him: not another soul saw her.
      Awestruck, Achilles turned around, recognizing
      Pallas Athena at once - it was her eyes -
      ...
    • beginning of book 2: Zeus send a deceptive dream to Agamemnon
    • Physical occurrences explained by gods:
      3.400
      But Aphrodite, Zeus' daughter, had all this
      In sharp focus and snapped the oxhide chinstrap,
      Leaving Menelaus clenching an empty helmet.
  • DO UT DES
    • Gods as manipulable forces (are they still gods then if thy do humans bidding?)
      Achilles speaks, trying to find a way to end the plague
      1.74
      Maybe he'd be willing to lift this plague from us
      If he savored the smoke from lambs and prime goats.
    • Calchas the seer identifies the "cause" of the plague
      1.99
      "The god finds no fault with vow or sacrifice.
      It is for his priest, whom Agamemnon dishonored
      And would not allow to ransom his daughter,
      That Apollo deals and will deal death from afar. . . "
    • Achilles obeys Athena and Hera
      1.226
      "When you two speak, Goddess, a man has to listen
      No matter how angry. It's better that way.
      Obey the gods and they hear you when you pray."
  • Zeus as supreme and just god
    • 1.557
      (Zeus speaks to Achilles' mother Thetis)
      "I'll say yes to you by nodding my head,
      The ultimate pledge. Unambiguous,
      Irreversible, and absolutely fulfilled,
      Whatever I say yet to with a nod of my head."
    • Zeus seems to be the master or Fate
      8.74
      The Father stretched out his golden scales.
      On them he placed two dooms of agonizing death,
      One for the Trojans, one for the Greeks.
    • But Zeus is also ruled by Fate (death of Sarpedon)
      16.471
      (Zeus speaks to Hera) "Fate has it that Sarpedon, whom I love more
      Than any man, is to be killed by Patroclus."
    • Natural forces can be instruments of Zeus' justice
      16.416
      ...still the rain
      Comes down in sheets as Zeus' judgement
      On men who govern by violence
      And drive Justice out with their crooked verdicts.
• Hero Code:
  • A hero is:
    • Well born
    • Good looking
    • Good at fighting
    • a man of honor. Honor is:
      • Reputation-kleos: what others say about the hero
      • Wealth
        • Wealth won by heroic deeds (war, raids)
        • Wealth by inheritance
        • History of items redounds to the hero's credit: owning a nice cup makes Nestor more of a hero.
      • All fighting is for honor.
        • The cause seems almost superfluous at times (e.g. Achilles' fighting)
        • Guilt and sorrow seem not to matter much
        • Opportunities to fight are almost a gift (cf. Zeus when he regrets that Poseidon backed down from a fight with him in Iliad 16: also Hector accuses Paris of bringing joy to the enemy by causing the war at 3.51: When Menelaus is shot, Agamemnon is certainly worried about the grief he will feel if Menelaus dies (4. 169-70), but not only that, he is equally worried about the dishonor he will bring to Argos (Menelaus' land), and that it will dishearten the Achaians (4.171-176)--in this speech, Agamemnon imagines that a Trojan might derive glory from the death of Menelaus and the loss of the Achaians (4.176-181)--but the Trojans do not anticipate such glory!!!--i.e. Homer presents the characters' expectations differently and seems to favor the Achaians himself, despite the seemingly journalistic neutrality he effects as narrator.)
  • Nestor speaks of what things should be like:
    1.277
    "I've never seen men like those, and never will,
    The likes of Peirithous and Dryas, a shepherd to his people,
    Caineus and Exadius and godlike Polyphemus,
    And Aegeus' son, Theseus, who could pass for a god,
    The strongest men who ever lived on earth, the strongest,
    And they fought with the strongest, with wild things
    From the mountains, and beat the daylights out of them...
    You couldn't find a mortal on earth who could fight with them now.
    And when I talked in council, they took my advice.
    So should you two now: taking advice is a good thing.
    Agamemnon, for all your nobility, don't take this girl.
    Leave her be: the army originally gave her to him as a prize.
    Nor should you, son of Peleus, want to lock horns with a king.
    A scepter-holding king has honor beyond the rest of men,
    Power and glory given by Zeus himself.
    You are stronger, and it is a goddess who bore you.
    But he is more powerful, since he rules over more. ..."
  • 11.709
    (Nestor speaks)
    But Achilles
    For all his valor has no feeling for us.
    (hero is supposed to have feeling for those in need)
  • 15.211
    (Poseidon speaks)
    "Bitter pain comes to my heart and soul
    Whenever anyone attacks an equal,
    A peer of equal status, with angry words."
    (Heroes of equal status respect each other-that is part of honor: why is an equal attacking an equal worse than a superior attacking an inferior?)
    16.55
    (Achilles speaks)
    "I take it hard when someone in power
    Uses his authority to rob his equal
    And strip him of his honor. I take it hard."
  • HONOR:
    Honor is the most important thing to a Homeric hero.
    • Agamemnon's reaction to the loss of Chryseis:
      1.126
      "I want another prize ready for me right away.
      I'm not going to be the only Greek without a prize,
      It wouldn't be right. And you all see where mine is going."
    • Hector places his "honor" over the safety of all of Troy! and his dear family! (see book 6 Hector and Andromache) Andromache suggests an entirely sensible defense plan--shore up the wall where it is most vulnerable, and otherwise do not fight the Achaians 6.433--Hector answers "I know, but I would feel shame if I shrank from the fighting--I know Ilion shall perish (is this just "I know I am mortal, and so I shall die"? or is it "I know the Achaians will win this war here and now"?) then amazingly Hector says "May I be dead and buried before I hear you crying and know by this that they drag you captive"--what sort of feeling is that? Cowardly? or rather "May I have done everything I possibly could to fend off that day--it would be worse to see it alive than to have it happen after I die." Is this selfish?--then Hector goes out on the battlefield and challenges one Achaian to fight him--is that selfish? Why do it? 7.67-91--it looks selfish and foolish--if he dies, Troy dies--he is risking all for nothing but honor!!! But the gods Athena and Apollo (supposedly) put him up to making the challenge--so is it Hector or the gods who are responsible? Is it selfish? Hector makes as a condition of the single combat that the body be given back, in order to redound to the greater glory of the winner (Hector imagines that he himself shall win 7.89-91)
    • Honor includes place at meals and hierarchy of distribution
      Heroes are supposed to provide for their supporters and be provided for by those whom they support.
      1.497
      Feast they did, and no one lacked an equal share.
    • 1.220
      (Athena speaks to Achilles)
      Now come on, drop this quarrel, don't draw your sword.
      "Tell him off instead. And I'll tell you,
      Achilles, how things will be: You're going to get
      Three times as many magnificent gifts
      Because of his arrogance. Just listen to us and be patient."
    • Occasional questioning of this honor system (mainly by Achilles , but also by a lone man of the people, Thersites):
      1.175
      (Achilles speaks) "No, I do all the dirty work with my own hands,
      And when the battle's over and we divide the loot
      you get the lion's share and I go back to the ships
      With some pitiful little thing, so worn out from fighting
      I don't have the strength even to complain.
      Well, I'm going back to Phthia now. Far better
      To head home with my curves ships than stay here,
      Unhonored myself and piling up a fortune for you."
    • Compare Thersites' words. Thersites is "a blathering fool" and a "rabble rouser." He is a foil for the heroes: he is ugly, not nobly born, and has no honor.
      2.245
      "What's wrong, son of Atreus, something you need?
      Your huts are filled with bronze, and with women
      We Achaeans pick out and give to you first of all
      Whenever we take some town. Are you short of gold?
      Maybe some Trojan horse breeder will bring you some
      Out of Ilion as ransom for his son
      Whom I or some other Achaean has captured.
      Maybe it's a young girl for you to make love to
      And keep off somewhere for yourself. It's not right
      For a lead to march our troops into trouble.
      You Achaeans are a disgrace, Achaean women, not men!
      Let's sail home in our ships and leave him here
      To stew over his prizes so he'll have a chance to see
      Whether he needs our help or not. Furthermore,
      He dishonors Achilles, who's a much better man. ..."
    • Odysseus thrashes Thersites, and the rank and file are glad of it! They praise Odysseus for his leadership!
      This was not the last time a plain human of no societal stature raised a voice for the people and for justice and was quashed by those in power WITH THE FULL APPROVAL OF THE PEOPLE whom he championed.
• Achilles' choice:
  • 1.367
    "Mother, since you bore me for a short life only,
    Olympian Zeus was supposed to grant me honor.
    Well, he hasn't given me any."
  • 9.324
    (Achilles speaks to the embassy of Greeks sent to persuade him to fight)
    "It doesn't matter if you stay in camp or fight -
    In the end, everybody comes out the same.
    Coward and hero get the same reward:
    You die whether you slack off or work.
    And what do I have for all my suffering,
    Constantly putting my life on the line?
    Like a bird who feeds her chicks
    Whatever she finds, and goes without herself,
    That's what I've been like, lying awake
    Through sleepless nights, in battle for days
    Soaked in blood, fighting men for their wives.
    I've raided twelve cities with our ships
    And eleven on foot in the fertile Troad,
    Looted them all, brought back heirlooms
    By the ton, handed it all over
    To Atreus' son, who hung back in camp
    Raking it in and distributing damn little.
    What the others did get they at least got to keep.
    ...
    Why did Agamemnon lead the army to Troy
    If not for the sake of fair-haired Helen?
    Do you have to be descended from Atreus
    To love your mate? Every decent, sane man
    Loves his woman and cares for her, as I did,
    Loved her in my heart. It doesn't matter
    That I won her with my spear.
    ...
    I will sacrifice to Zeus and all the gods tomorrow,
    Load my ships, and launch them on the sea.
    ...
    Nothing is worth my life, not all the riches
    They say Troy held before the Greeks came,
    Not all the wealth in Phoebus Apollo's
    Marble shrine up in craggy Pytho.
    Cattle and flocks are there for the taking;
    You can always get tripods and chestnut horses.
    But a man's life cannot be won back
    Once his breath has passed beyond his clenched teeth.
    My mother Thetis , a moving silver grace,
    Tells me two fates sweep me on to my death.
    If I stay here and fight, I'll never return home,
    But my glory will be undying forever.
    If I return home to my dear fatherland
    My glory is lost but my life will be long,
    And death that ends all will not catch me soon.
    As for the rest of you, I would advise you too
    To sail back home..."
  • Phoenix tries to bend Achilles' heart:
    9.509
    "...you have to master your proud spirit.
    It's not right for you to have a pitiless heart.
    Even the gods can bend. Superior as they are
    In honor, power, and every excellence,
    They can be turned aside from wrath."
    (compare Poseidon bowing to Zeus in book 15.187).
• Who is to blame for the war?
  • Paris? Hector thinks so:
    3.51
    (Hector speaks)
    "Paris, you desperate, womanizing pretty boy!
    ...
    Is this how you were when you got up a crew
    And sailed overseas, hobnobbed with the warrior caste
    In a foreign country and sailed off with
    A beautiful woman with marriage ties to half of them?
  • Priam absolves Helen:
    3.172
    (Priam addresses Helen)
    You are not to blame
    For this war with the Greeks. The gods are.
  • Menelaus blames Paris:
    3.375
    "Lord Zeus, make Paris pay for the evil he's done to me,
    Smite him down with my hands so that men for all time
    Will fear to transgress against a host's offered friendship."
  • Helen blames Aphrodite:
    3.427
    (Helen addresses Aphrodite)
    "You eerie thing, why do you love
    Lying to me like this? Where are you taking me now?
    Phrygia? Beautiful Maeonia? Another city
    Where you have some other boyfriend for me?
    Or is it because Menelaus, having just beaten Paris,
    Wants to take his hateful wife back to his house
    That you stand here now with treachery in your heart?
• Fighting tactics (this is important for later discussions of war and citizenship):
  • 2.497
    (the Greek troops are like) One line of birds settling in front of another
    Until the whole meadow is a carpet of sound.
    Likewise from the ships and huts, tribe after tribe
    Poured out onto the Scamander's floodplain,
    And the ground groaned and reverberated
    Under their feet and hooves of their horses
    And they stood in the flowering meadow there,
    Countless as leaves, or as flowers in their season.
    ...
    And as goatherds easily separate out
    Wide flocks of goats mingled in pasture,
    So the commanders drew up their troops
    To enter battle, and Lord Agamemnon
    Moved among them like Zeus himself.
  • 2. 914
    (an old Trojan names Aesytes speaks)
    "Never
    Have I seen an army like this,
    Covering the plain like leaves, or like sand,
    As it advances to attack the city.
    Hector, you're in charge of this operation.
    But because there are so many allies here
    With different languages from points abroad,
    Each captain should give word to his own men
    And lead them out marshalled by cities."
  • 3.350
    The armies
    Sat down, rank after rank...
  • Achilles rallies the troops to send Patroclus into battle
    • 16.180
      Achilles had brought fifty ships to Troy.
      Each ship held fify men, and the entire force
      Was divided into five battalions
      Whose five commanders answered to Achilles
    • 16.218
      The Myrmidons
      Closed ranks until there was no more space between them
      Than between the stones a mason sets in the wall
      Of a high house when he want so seal it from the wind.
      Helmet on helmet, shield overlapping shield, man on man,
      So close the horsehair plums on their bright crests
      Rubbed each other as their heads bobbed up and down.
• Assemblies occur, but heroes talk: what are the assemblies for?
  2.901
  Zeus notified the Trojans of all this
  By sending Iris streaking down to Ilion.
  She found the citizens assembled in one body, young and old alike, talking.
• Achilles Armor (18.521) represents everything that Achilles will lose.