530.
(a) ΣΩ. Τὸν Ἴωνα χαίρειν. πόθεν τὰ νῦν ἡμῖν ἐπιδεδή-
μηκας; ἢ οἴκοθεν ἐξ Ἐφέσου;
- χαίρειν:
- subject of an infinitive is
ordinarily accusative: hence Τὸν Ἴωνα
- χαίρω : LSJ definition III:
freq. in imper. χαῖρε,
dual χαίρετον, pl. χαίρετε, as a form of
greeting,
- inf.
alone at the beginning of letters, Κῦρος Κυαξάρῃ χαίρειν (sc. λέγει) X.Cyr.4.5.27, cf.
Theoc.14.1; used
by Alexander the Great to Phocion as a mark of respect,
Duris 51J.
- Smyth §2013 says: The infinitive may be used for a 2nd
person imperative.
- τὰ νῦν
- Greek can add an article to anything, which makes
that thing into a noun, a 'nominal'.
- So τὰ νῦν is a nominal now and means "the neuter things now"
which means "current things" "things at this time"
- And it is accusative or nominative, right?
- A nominative makes no sense, so it might be accusative.
- An accusative can be used as an adverb, a so-called adverbial
accusative, so τὰ νῦν can mean "with respect to things
now" which means, in better English, "just now"
- To sum up: although it is already an adverb, νῦν here is
made into an adverb
- Not just here: here's another example from Phaedo 57a:
- ἢ οἴκοθεν ἐξ Ἐφέσου;
- This doesn't make sense on its own as a sentence.
- Use words that have just been said to fill in whatever is
needed to make it make sense:
- ἢ οἴκοθεν ἐξ Ἐφέσου ἐπιδεδήμηκας;
- the ἢ is "or" and implies that there is some other choice
that is not mentioned: it's a 'colloquial' use, which means it
is close to how people really talked. How do I know that?
Because of all the explanations I can think of, that fits the
situation best: it fits in so many places in Plato that we can
say that Plato often uses a 'colloquial' style. Where else do
we find 'colloquial' style? Aristophanes and perhaps graffiti.
ΙΩΝ. Οὐδαμῶς, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀλλ’ ἐξ Ἐπιδαύρου ἐκ τῶν
Ἀσκληπιείων.
- Again, supply words from what came before to make this make
sense. The full thought must be:
- Οὐδαμῶς ἐπιδεδήμηκα οἴκοθεν ἐξ Ἐφέσου, ὦ Σώκρατες,
ἀλλ’ ἐπιδεδήμηκα ἐξ Ἐπιδαύρου ἐκ τῶν
Ἀσκληπιείων.
ΣΩ. Μῶν καὶ ῥαψῳδῶν ἀγῶνα τιθέασιν τῷ θεῷ
οἱ (5)
Ἐπιδαύριοι;
- Μῶν is a particle that is from
μὴ + οὖν and means "surely ... not" and
expects "no" for an answer.
ΙΩΝ. Πάνυ γε, καὶ τῆς ἄλλης γε μουσικῆς.
- This is not the expected 'no' for an answer: that makes it
lively and exciting.
- Again, supply words from what preceded to make this make
sense: καὶ ῥαψῳδῶν καὶ τῆς ἄλλης γε μουσικῆς ἀγῶνα
τιθέασιν τῷ θεῷ οἱ Ἐπιδαύριοι.
ΣΩ. Τί οὖν; ἠγωνίζου τι ἡμῖν; καὶ πῶς τι ἠγωνίσω;
- τι can be used as an adverb, almost a particle, meaning 'at
all' 'in any way' 'ever': none of those meanings work perfetly
here , but that is roughly what it means. In such a case, where
the meaning is a subtle one, it is OK not to translate the word
into English but just note that it's there and doesn't change
the meaning greatly.
(b) ΙΩΝ. Τὰ πρῶτα τῶν ἄθλων ἠνεγκάμεθα, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ. Εὖ λέγεις· ἄγε δὴ ὅπως καὶ τὰ Παναθήναια νική-
σομεν.
- Εὖ λέγεις literally means 'you say well,' but is idiomatic for
'that's great news!'
- note that winning a hundred dollars is different from winning
a competition: $100 is a straightforward direct object, but a
contest is a sort of 'internal object' in that winning and
competing are the same thing, just as when you run a race, the
race is the run.
- note that you have to do something with ὅπως: any way to
understand the sentence that does not include it is not right:
what sort of clauses are introduced by ὅπως?
ΙΩΝ. Ἀλλ’ ἔσται ταῦτα, ἐὰν θεὸς ἐθέλῃ.
- What kind of conditional has future in the apodosis and an
+ subjunctive in the protasis?
ΣΩ. Καὶ μὴν πολλάκις γε ἐζήλωσα ὑμᾶς τοὺς
ῥαψῳδούς, (5)
ὦ Ἴων, τῆς τέχνης· τὸ γὰρ ἅμα μὲν τὸ σῶμα κεκοσμῆσθαι
ἀεὶ πρέπον ὑμῶν εἶναι τῇ τέχνῃ καὶ ὡς καλλίστοις φαί-
νεσθαι, ἅμα δὲ ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι ἔν τε ἄλλοις ποιηταῖς δια-
τρίβειν πολλοῖς καὶ ἀγαθοῖς καὶ δὴ καὶ μάλιστα ἐν Ὁμήρῳ,
τῷ ἀρίστῳ καὶ θειοτάτῳ τῶν ποιητῶν, καὶ τὴν τούτου
διά- (10)
(c) νοιαν ἐκμανθάνειν, μὴ μόνον τὰ ἔπη, ζηλωτόν ἐστιν.
- ζηλόω "envy" takes acc. or persons as direct object + a
genitive of things. So
τινά
τινος ζηλῶ means "I envy someone (because of)
something"
- Remember how I said that Greek can add an article to anything
back at τὰ νῦν in the second sentence? Well, get ready for
it to make one huge nominal!
- Here, the article τὸ makes all of the following into a
nominal: ἅμα μὲν τὸ σῶμα κεκοσμῆσθαι ἀεὶ πρέπον ὑμῶν εἶναι τῇ
τέχνῃ καὶ ὡς καλλίστοις φαίνεσθαι, ἅμα δὲ ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι ἔν τε
ἄλλοις ποιηταῖς διατρίβειν πολλοῖς καὶ ἀγαθοῖς καὶ δὴ καὶ
μάλιστα ἐν Ὁμήρῳ, τῷ ἀρίστῳ καὶ θειοτάτῳ τῶν ποιητῶν, καὶ τὴν
τούτου διάνοιαν ἐκμανθάνειν, μὴ μόνον τὰ ἔπη.
- SO, the basic sentence here is simple: τὸ γὰρ
(that big huge infinitive snarl of a nominal)
ζηλωτόν ἐστιν.
- Now to untangle that snarl of infinitives:
- the ἅμα μὲν ..., ἅμα δὲ... helped a lot, because ἅμα means
"together, at once" and the μὲν ..., δὲ told me there
were two parts to be untangled.
- the first articular infinitive, τὸ ἅμα μὲν πρέπον εἶναι,
itself takes the complementary infinitives κεκοσμῆσθαι καὶ
φαίνεσθαι
- and the second articular infinitive, ἅμα δὲ ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι,
takes the complementary infinitives διατρίβειν καὶ ἐκμανθάνειν
- and each of those complementary infinitives has things like
direct objects, prepositional phrases, etc. that depend on
them.
- How did I know that those were the two articular
infinitives? Because that was the only way it all fit
together: everything else I tried left some things unaccounted
for or awkward.
- So let's diagram it:
- τὸ γὰρ (article that makes everything that follows into a
big noun)
- 1. ἅμα μὲν ἀεὶ πρέπον εἶναι (first
infinitive limb of the big noun)
- 1a. τὸ σῶμα ὑμῶν κεκοσμῆσθαι τῇ τέχνῃ καὶ ὡς καλλίστοις
φαίνεσθαι, (sub-limb of first infinitive limb)
- 2. ἅμα δὲ ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι (second infinitive limb
of the big noun)
- 2a. ἔν τε ἄλλοις ποιηταῖς διατρίβειν (first infinitive
sub-limb of the second infinitive limb)
- πολλοῖς καὶ ἀγαθοῖς καὶ δὴ καὶ μάλιστα ἐν Ὁμήρῳ, τῷ
ἀρίστῳ καὶ θειοτάτῳ τῶν ποιητῶν, (appositive phrase in
apposition to ἄλλοις ποιηταῖς)
- 2b. καὶ τὴν τούτου διάνοιαν ἐκμανθάνειν, μὴ μόνον τὰ
ἔπη, (second infinitive sub-limb of the second infinitive
limb)
- ζηλωτόν ἐστιν. (predicate of main clause)
οὐ γὰρ ἂν γένοιτό ποτε ἀγαθὸς ῥαψῳδός, εἰ μὴ συνείη τὰ λεγόμενα ὑπὸ
τοῦ ποιητοῦ.
- What kind of conditional is this?
-
συνίημι means
"understand"
τὸν γὰρ ῥαψῳδὸν ἑρμηνέα δεῖ τοῦ ποιητοῦ τῆς διανοίας γίγνεσθαι τοῖς
ἀκούουσι·
- What finite verb(s) are found in this clause?
- Is ἀκούουσι a finite verb? then explain the article τοῖς
before it! You can't? What else can ἀκούουσι be?
- δεῖ takes acc. + inf.
- when there is no verb, what verb is it? either something from
the sentence before or a form of εἶναι
τοῦτο δὲ καλῶς ποιεῖν μὴ γιγνώσκοντα ὅτι λέγει ὁ ποιητὴς
ἀδύνατον. (5)
- hint: the main clause is ἀδύνατον: it's just like ἀναγκαῖον in
that it typically takes an inf.
- remember, if there is no verb, supply one from previous stuff
or use a form of εἶναι
ταῦτα οὖν πάντα ἄξια ζηλοῦσθαι.
- he's doing it again: when there is no verb, supply one from
before or supply a form of εἶναι.
- ἄξια "worthy" often takes an inf.
ΙΩΝ. Ἀληθῆ λέγεις, ὦ Σώκρατες· ἐμοὶ γοῦν τοῦτο
πλεῖστον ἔργον παρέσχεν τῆς τέχνης, καὶ οἶμαι κάλλιστα
ἀνθρώπων λέγειν περὶ Ὁμήρου, ὡς οὔτε Μητρόδωρος ὁ
(d) Λαμψακηνὸς οὔτε Στησίμβροτος ὁ Θάσιος οὔτε Γλαύκων
οὔτε ἄλλος οὐδεὶς τῶν πώποτε γενομένων ἔσχεν εἰπεῖν οὕτω
πολλὰς καὶ καλὰς διανοίας περὶ Ὁμήρου ὅσας ἐγώ.
- cut this up into smaller chunks using the punctuation:
- Ἀληθῆ λέγεις, ὦ Σώκρατες·
- ἐμοὶ γοῦν τοῦτο πλεῖστον ἔργον παρέσχεν τῆς τέχνης,
- καὶ οἶμαι κάλλιστα ἀνθρώπων λέγειν περὶ Ὁμήρου,
- note here that οἶμαι is a verb of thinking, which can take
indirect speech, and when the subject does not change from
the leading verb to the infinitive, there is no need to
express the subject again.
- ὡς οὔτε Μητρόδωρος ὁ
(d) Λαμψακηνὸς οὔτε Στησίμβροτος ὁ Θάσιος οὔτε Γλαύκων
οὔτε ἄλλος οὐδεὶς τῶν πώποτε γενομένων ἔσχεν εἰπεῖν οὕτω
πολλὰς καὶ καλὰς διανοίας περὶ Ὁμήρου ὅσας ἐγώ.
- ἔσχεν: a very common meaning of ἔχω is "be able"
- ὅσας ἐγώ is a relative clause: the verb can be supplied
from before.
ΣΩ. Εὖ λέγεις, ὦ Ἴων· δῆλον γὰρ ὅτι οὐ φθονήσεις
μοι ἐπιδεῖξαι. (5)
- δῆλον ὅτι can usually be translated as "clearly," or you can
take the long literal grammatical way and translate it as "It
[is] clear that ..."
ΙΩΝ. Καὶ μὴν ἄξιόν γε ἀκοῦσαι, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὡς εὖ
κεκόσμηκα τὸν Ὅμηρον· ὥστε οἶμαι ὑπὸ Ὁμηριδῶν ἄξιος
εἶναι χρυσῷ στεφάνῳ στεφανωθῆναι.
- again, ἄξιόν "worthy" can have further words dependent on it.
- among its many functions, ὡς can be an adverbial "how" and
modify another adverb, like εὖ.
- ὥστε usually introduces a result: sometimes that result is a
result clause, and sometimes it is an independent main clause,
as it is here.
- -ιδης when added to a name or noun means "offspring of" or
"related to": these "Homerids" are imitators/admirers of
"Homer." I think these particular ones may be Chian Homerids:
hard to tell, but there were renowned Chian Homerids in
antiquity.
ΣΩ. Καὶ μὴν ἐγὼ ἔτι ποιήσομαι σχολὴν ἀκροάσασθαί
531.
(a) σου, νῦν δέ μοι τοσόνδε ἀπόκριναι· πότερον περὶ Ὁμήρου
μόνον δεινὸς εἶ ἢ καὶ περὶ Ἡσιόδου καὶ Ἀρχιλόχου;
- ἀκροάσασθαί looks like an inf. of purpose with ποιήσομαι
σχολὴν: you probably have been told that infinitives are not
used for purpose in Greek, which is not quite true: Smyth
§2008-10 lists a bunch of infinitive of purpose uses.
- σχολὴν = leisure, and also is the etymon of "school": Plato
frequently plays around with the binary of business/leisure and
claims that philosophy, a so-called "leisure," is serious
business. What is more, this sentence is part of a politeness
dance that Soc. and Ion are performing. Note how Soc.
compliments Ion, asks for a little thing (τοσόνδε), and puts him
into a sort of zugzwang position where he must oblige
Socrates? That's typical of Socratic procedure.
- μόνον: accusatives can be used adverbially: when it makes no
sense as an acc. adjective, it's probably an adverb, especially
if it makes sense as an adverb.
ΙΩΝ. Οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλὰ περὶ Ὁμήρου μόνον· ἱκανὸν γάρ
μοι δοκεῖ εἶναι.
- Οὐδαμῶς: supply the rest of this thought from before.
- ἀλλὰ περὶ Ὁμήρου μόνον: ditto.
- So the complete thought would be something like: Οὐδαμῶς εἰμὶ
δεινὸς περὶ Ἡσιόδου καὶ Ἀρχιλόχου, ἀλλ᾽ εἰμὶ δεινὸς περὶ Ὁμήρου
μόνον.
- μόνον is an acc. adjective, so it can be an ____.
ΣΩ. Ἔστι δὲ περὶ ὅτου Ὅμηρός τε καὶ Ἡσίοδος ταὐτὰ
(5)
λέγετον; —
- Ἔστι: main clause
- ὅτου: a relative pronoun: it has to have an antecedent (all
relatives do), but there is none. This is a very common
occurrence called "omission of the antecedent" just to give it a
name that is thankfully descriptive, but not terribly helpful.
- λέγετον: when you have no idea what form it is, it just might
be a dual: that is actually the thought that pops into my head
every time I see a dual like this.
ΙΩΝ. Οἶμαι ἔγωγε καὶ πολλά. —
- supply everything from before: you know that by now.
ΣΩ. Πότερον
οὖν περὶ τούτων κάλλιον ἂν ἐξηγήσαιο ἃ Ὅμηρος λέγει
ἢ ἃ Ἡσίοδος; —
- Πότερον just marks this as a question.
- κάλλιον accusative adjectives can be adverbial. And the
comparative adverb is regularly formed by the acc. sg. neuter.
ΙΩΝ. Ὁμοίως ἂν περί γε τούτων, ὦ
(b) Σώκρατες, περὶ ὧν ταὐτὰ λέγουσιν. —
- Ὁμοίως ἂν περί γε τούτων: supply what you need from before.
- ταὐτὰ: note the breathing mark: crasis!
ΣΩ. Τί δὲ ὧν
πέρι μὴ ταὐτὰ λέγουσιν;
- πέρι: note the accent: shouldn't it be on the ultima? When the
accent goes back to the penult on a preposition, it means that
the object is before the preposition (or that the preposition is
pregnant with a form of "to be" hidden inside of it: but that's
not the case here, so we'll leave that for another day).
οἷον περὶ μαντικῆς λέγει τι
Ὅμηρός τε καὶ Ἡσίοδος. —
- οἷον can mean "for example": it probably comes from something
like an acc. or respect and means more literally "with respect
to which sort of thing", but "for example" works so well for it
that we say it means that sometimes.
ΙΩΝ. Πάνυ γε. —
- one of the many ways that interlocutors in Plato say "Yes,
Socrates."
ΣΩ. Τί
οὖν; ὅσα τε ὁμοίως καὶ ὅσα διαφόρως περὶ μαντικῆς
λέγετον τὼ ποιητὰ τούτω, πότερον σὺ κάλλιον ἂν ἐξη- @1
(5)
γήσαιο ἢ τῶν μάντεών τις τῶν ἀγαθῶν; —
- λέγετον τὼ ποιητὰ τούτω: endings not often encountered are
usually duals, which is confirmed here by a) verifying it in a
grammar like Smyth, and b) noting that they are indeed speaking
of two poets, Hesiod and Homer.
- when there is an explicit contrast, Greek usually expresses
the personal subject: hence σὺ.
ΙΩΝ. Τῶν
μάντεων.
- Fetch what you need from before to make this answer be a
sensible answer.
—ΣΩ. Εἰ δὲ σὺ ἦσθα μάντις, οὐκ, εἴπερ περὶ
τῶν ὁμοίως λεγομένων οἷός τ’ ἦσθα ἐξηγήσασθαι, καὶ περὶ
τῶν διαφόρως λεγομένων ἠπίστω ἂν ἐξηγεῖσθαι;
- note the double protasis: if you were ... and if you were able
..., ...
- note too that punctuation tells you that οὐκ belongs with
ἠπίστω.
- imperfect in both protasis and apodosis, and ἂν in the
apodosis is what kind of condition?
- what form is ἠπίστω? explain it's parts: augment? prefix?
tense stem? ending?
—ΙΩΝ.
Δῆλον ὅτι. (10)
- Confirmation that I was right that Δῆλον ὅτι can mean
"clearly." Also, yet another way of saying "yes" in Platonic
prose. My favorite is the superlative of "true," ἀληθεστατα.
(c) ΣΩ. Τί οὖν ποτε περὶ μὲν Ὁμήρου δεινὸς εἶ, περὶ δὲ
Ἡσιόδου οὔ, οὐδὲ τῶν ἄλλων ποιητῶν;
- οὐδὲ τῶν ἄλλων ποιητῶν: supply what you need from before,
namely οὐδὲ τῶν ἄλλων ποιητῶν δεινὸς εἶs
ἢ Ὅμηρος περὶ
ἄλλων τινῶν λέγει ἢ ὧνπερ σύμπαντες οἱ ἄλλοι ποιηταί;
οὐ περὶ πολέμου τε τὰ πολλὰ διελήλυθεν καὶ περὶ ὁμιλιῶν
πρὸς ἀλλήλους ἀνθρώπων ἀγαθῶν τε καὶ κακῶν καὶ ἰδιωτῶν
(5)
καὶ δημιουργῶν, καὶ περὶ θεῶν πρὸς ἀλλήλους καὶ πρὸς
ἀνθρώπους ὁμιλούντων, ὡς ὁμιλοῦσι, καὶ περὶ τῶν οὐρανίων
παθημάτων καὶ περὶ τῶν ἐν Ἅιδου, καὶ γενέσεις καὶ θεῶν
(d) καὶ ἡρώων;
- is τὰ πολλὰ adverbial?
- καὶ περὶ θεῶν πρὸς ἀλλήλους καὶ πρὸς ἀνθρώπους ὁμιλούντων, ὡς
ὁμιλοῦσι: that is a "proleptic" construction. The paradigm
example of such a construction is from somewhere in the Bible,
"consider the lilies of the field, how they grow" (which should
be "consider how the lilies of the field grow" but the lilies
are taken out and put before (hence "pro" "lept") where they
belong).
- what is καὶ γενέσεις doing? everything else was
either περὶ+ gen. for the topics or πρὸς+ acc.
for the actors.
οὐ ταῦτά ἐστι περὶ ὧν Ὅμηρος τὴν ποίησιν
πεποίηκεν;
ΙΩΝ. Ἀληθῆ λέγεις, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ. Τί δὲ οἱ ἄλλοι ποιηταί; οὐ περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν
τούτων; (5)
ΙΩΝ. Ναί, ἀλλ’, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐχ ὁμοίως πεποιήκασι
καὶ Ὅμηρος.
- Yes, Greek has a word for 'yes': it is Ναί.
- ὁμοίως ... καὶ = "similarly to" or "the same as"
ΣΩ. Τί μήν; κάκιον;
- Supply what you need from before, remembering that an acc.
adjective can be an _____.
ΙΩΝ. Πολύ γε.
ΣΩ. Ὅμηρος δὲ ἄμεινον; (10)
ΙΩΝ. Ἄμεινον μέντοι νὴ Δία.
- Supply what you need from before, remembering that an acc.
adjective can be an _____.
ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν, ὦ φίλη κεφαλὴ Ἴων, ὅταν περὶ ἀριθμοῦ
πολλῶν λεγόντων εἷς τις ἄριστα λέγῃ, γνώσεται δήπου τις
(e) τὸν εὖ λέγοντα; —
- ὦ φίλη κεφαλὴ: be sure to guess what this means before you try
to look it up: what do you think would fit here? Think about how
you might call a loved one "dear heart" or say that there are
"twelve head of cattle" or we talk of a "head count."
- ἄριστα: the standard way to form a superlative adverb is the
acc. n. pl. of the superlative adverb: once again, n. acc.
>> adv.
ΙΩΝ. Φημί. —ΣΩ. Πότερον οὖν ὁ αὐτὸς
ὅσπερ καὶ τοὺς κακῶς λέγοντας, ἢ ἄλλος; —ΙΩΝ. Ὁ αὐτὸς
δήπου. —
- δήπου always invokes the agreement of the other
person, which is why it is usually translated as "surely."
ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν ὁ τὴν ἀριθμητικὴν τέχνην ἔχων οὗτός
ἐστιν; —ΙΩΝ. Ναί. —ΣΩ. Τί δ’; ὅταν πολλῶν λεγόντων
περὶ ὑγιεινῶν σιτίων ὁποῖά ἐστιν, εἷς τις ἄριστα λέγῃ,
(5)
πότερον ἕτερος μέν τις τὸν ἄριστα λέγοντα γνώσεται ὅτι @1
ἄριστα λέγει, ἕτερος δὲ τὸν κάκιον ὅτι κάκιον, ἢ ὁ αὐτός; —
- περὶ ὑγιεινῶν σιτίων ὁποῖά ἐστιν: another proleptic
construction.
- πότερον just signals that this is a question.
- τὸν ἄριστα λέγοντα γνώσεται ὅτι ἄριστα λέγει: another
proleptic construction.
ΙΩΝ. Δῆλον δήπου, ὁ αὐτός. —
- Yet another way to say "yes"
- supply what you need from before: ὁ αὐτός τὸν ἄριστα
λέγοντα γνώσεται ὅτι ἄριστα λέγει.
ΣΩ. Τίς οὗτος; τί ὄνομα
αὐτῷ; —
- αὐτῷ: I call this the "dative of ownership": I suppose you
could call it the "possessive dative"
ΙΩΝ. Ἰατρός. —ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν ἐν κεφαλαίῳ λέγομεν
ὡς ὁ αὐτὸς γνώσεται ἀεί, περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν πολλῶν λεγόν-
(10)
532.
(a) των, ὅστις τε εὖ λέγει καὶ ὅστις κακῶς· ἢ εἰ μὴ γνώσεται
τὸν κακῶς λέγοντα, δῆλον ὅτι οὐδὲ τὸν εὖ, περί γε τοῦ
αὐτοῦ. —
- περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν πολλῶν λεγόντων: be sure to notice that τῶν
αὐτῶν is the object of περὶ, while πολλῶν λεγόντων is either
partitive genitive with the omitted antecedent of ὅστις, or
maybe a genitive absolute.
ΙΩΝ. Οὕτως. —
- How many ways can he say "yes"?
ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν ὁ αὐτὸς γίγνεται δεινὸς
περὶ ἀμφοτέρων; —ΙΩΝ. Ναί. —
- Wow, he just said Ναί this time. Just "yes." The point is that
Plato introduces a great variety of ways to say 'yes', and a
great variety of colloquialisms in general. I've always wondered
whether there is anything more to conclude from this than that
he likes variety.
ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν σὺ φῂς καὶ
Ὅμηρον καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους ποιητάς, ἐν οἷς καὶ Ἡσίοδος καὶ
(5)
Ἀρχίλοχός ἐστιν, περί γε τῶν αὐτῶν λέγειν, ἀλλ’ οὐχ
ὁμοίως, ἀλλὰ τὸν μὲν εὖ γε, τοὺς δὲ χεῖρον; —
- ἀλλ’ οὐχ ὁμοίως, ἀλλὰ τὸν μὲν εὖ γε, τοὺς δὲ χεῖρον
- remember that we are still in indirect statement after σὺ
φῂς and fetch what you need from earlier in the sentence and
this becomes
- ἀλλὰ τουτους οὐχ ὁμοίως λέγειν, ἀλλὰ τὸν μὲν
εὖ γε λέγειν, τοὺς δὲ χεῖρον λέγειν
ΙΩΝ. Καὶ
ἀληθῆ λέγω. —ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν, εἴπερ τὸν εὖ λέγοντα γιγνώ-
(b) σκεις, καὶ τοὺς χεῖρον λέγοντας γιγνώσκοις ἂν ὅτι χεῖρον
λέγουσιν. —
- prolepsis
- what kind of conditional?
ΙΩΝ. Ἔοικέν γε. —
- Ἔοικα is "defective": this perfect-in-form verb has present
meaning, and its present-in-form has a slightly different
present meaning.
ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν, ὦ βέλτιστε,
ὁμοίως τὸν Ἴωνα λέγοντες περὶ Ὁμήρου τε δεινὸν εἶναι καὶ
περὶ τῶν ἄλλων ποιητῶν οὐχ ἁμαρτησόμεθα, ἐπειδή γε
αὐτὸς ὁμολογῇ τὸν αὐτὸν ἔσεσθαι κριτὴν ἱκανὸν πάντων (5)
ὅσοι ἂν περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν λέγωσι, τοὺς δὲ ποιητὰς σχεδὸν
ἅπαντας τὰ αὐτὰ ποιεῖν.
- Nice one, Plato. Let's take this apart:
- Οὐκοῦν, ὦ βέλτιστε, ὁμοίως τὸν Ἴωνα λέγοντες περὶ Ὁμήρου τε
δεινὸν εἶναι καὶ περὶ τῶν ἄλλων ποιητῶν οὐχ ἁμαρτησόμεθα,
- ἐπειδή γε αὐτὸς ὁμολογῇ τὸν αὐτὸν ἔσεσθαι κριτὴν ἱκανὸν
πάντων
- ὅσοι ἂν περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν λέγωσι,
- τοὺς δὲ ποιητὰς σχεδὸν ἅπαντας τὰ αὐτὰ ποιεῖν.
ΙΩΝ. Τί οὖν ποτε τὸ αἴτιον, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὅτι ἐγώ, ὅταν
μέν τις περὶ ἄλλου του ποιητοῦ διαλέγηται, οὔτε προσέχω
(c) τὸν νοῦν ἀδυνατῶ τε καὶ ὁτιοῦν συμβαλέσθαι λόγου ἄξιον,
ἀλλ’ ἀτεχνῶς νυστάζω, ἐπειδὰν δέ τις περὶ Ὁμήρου μνησθῇ,
εὐθύς τε ἐγρήγορα καὶ προσέχω τὸν νοῦν καὶ εὐπορῶ ὅτι
λέγω;
ΣΩ. Οὐ χαλεπὸν τοῦτό γε εἰκάσαι, ὦ ἑταῖρε, ἀλλὰ
παντὶ (5)
δῆλον ὅτι τέχνῃ καὶ ἐπιστήμῃ περὶ Ὁμήρου λέγειν ἀδύνατος
εἶ· εἰ γὰρ τέχνῃ οἷός τε ἦσθα, καὶ περὶ τῶν ἄλλων ποιητῶν
ἁπάντων λέγειν οἷός τ’ ἂν ἦσθα· ποιητικὴ γάρ πού ἐστιν
τὸ ὅλον. ἢ οὔ;
- τοῦτό γε is the subject, and there is an understood ἐστι. Οὐ
χαλεπὸν is a predicate nominative. εἰκάσαι, an infinitive,
is complementary to Οὐ χαλεπὸν
- the clause that begins ὅτι τέχνῃ ... is the subject, there is
an understood ἐστι, and δῆλον is a predicate nominative, and
παντὶ depends upon δῆλον
- the ὅτι clause: εἶ note the accent; τέχνῃ καὶ ἐπιστήμῃ are
datives of means; περὶ Ὁμήρου λέγειν is an infinitive phrase
dependent on ἀδύνατος, which is a predicate nominative.
- I keep thinking that what Socrates is saying could be taken as
insulting "fighting words."
- εἰ γὰρ τέχνῃ οἷός τε ἦσθα, "if" + imperfect indicative =
___________ conditional protasis.
- καὶ περὶ τῶν ἄλλων ποιητῶν ἁπάντων λέγειν οἷός τ’ ἂν ἦσθα·
imperfect indicative + ἂν = ______________ apodosis.
- ποιητικὴ γάρ πού ἐστιν τὸ ὅλον. Remember, the one with the
article is the subject, the one without the predicate term. Also
πού, like its expanded cousin δηπου invokes the listener's
agreement, like "you know" or "surely."
ΙΩΝ. Ναί. (10)
(d) ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν ἐπειδὰν λάβῃ τις καὶ ἄλλην τέχνην ἡντι-
νοῦν ὅλην, ὁ αὐτὸς τρόπος τῆς σκέψεως ἔσται περὶ ἁπασῶν
τῶν τεχνῶν; πῶς τοῦτο λέγω, δέῃ τί μου ἀκοῦσαι, ὦ Ἴων;
- ἐπειδὰν: ἂν + subjunctive in a subordinate clause is just like
a future more vivid or a present general protasis
- Smyth's grammar says that temporal clauses referring
indefinitely to the future take subjunctive + ἂν or optative
without ἂν.
- "indefinite" usually means that there's an -ever in there,
what-ever, who-ever, when-ever, how-ever, etc.
- ἡντινοῦν = ἡντινα + οῦν , and ἡντινα is the fem. acc. of ὁστις
- τρόπος = "manner," "way"
- ἔσται = "will be (good/correct)" : this is called a "pregnant"
use of a word, because it has some extra bit of meaning that it
doesn't normally have.
- δέῃ: a form of
δέομαι,
"want, need"
- τί
μου normally, τί accented that way
is interrogative, but note that both of these can be
enclitics, so
τί
does not necessarily have that accent in its own right,
natively if you will: it is not interrogative here.
I think it's adverbial "at all"
ΙΩΝ. Ναὶ μὰ τὸν Δία, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔγωγε· χαίρω γὰρ
ἀκούων ὑμῶν τῶν σοφῶν. (5)
- μὰ τὸν Δία =
νὴ Δία above
- χαίρω often takes a nominative participle
ΣΩ. Βουλοίμην ἄν σε ἀληθῆ λέγειν, ὦ Ἴων· ἀλλὰ σοφοὶ
μέν πού ἐστε ὑμεῖς οἱ ῥαψῳδοὶ καὶ ὑποκριταὶ καὶ ὧν ὑμεῖς
ᾄδετε τὰ ποιήματα, ἐγὼ δὲ οὐδὲν ἄλλο ἢ τἀληθῆ λέγω,
(e) οἷον εἰκὸς ἰδιώτην ἄνθρωπον.
- Βουλοίμην ἄν = "please"
- εἰκὸς is a neuter perfect participle of
ἔοικα "seem, be fitting, be appropriate"
and takes an acc. + inf.
ἐπεὶ καὶ περὶ τούτου οὗ νῦν ἠρόμην σε, θέασαι ὡς φαῦλον καὶ
ἰδιωτικόν ἐστι καὶ παντὸς
ἀνδρὸς γνῶναι ὃ ἔλεγον, τὴν αὐτὴν εἶναι σκέψιν, ἐπειδάν
τις ὅλην τέχνην λάβῃ.
- ἠρόμην, aor. 2 of
ἔρομαι, which usually takes an
accusative: so why is οὗ genitive instead of accusative?
because it is 'attracted' into the case of its antecedent:
that happens sometimes. I know of no particular pattern of
when or why it happens.
- θέασαι form?
- the subject of ἐστι is all of the
following γνῶναι ὃ ἔλεγον , τὴν αὐτὴν εἶναι σκέψιν, ἐπειδάν
τις ὅλην τέχνην λάβῃ
- γνῶναι itself takes ὃ ἔλεγον
as its object, and τὴν αὐτὴν εἶναι σκέψιν is in
apposition to ὃ
- ἐπειδάν
τις ὅλην τέχνην λάβῃ is a temporal clause
that modifies εἶναι
- it
is like a present general protasis:
"When ever someone takes..." = "if
ever someone takes ..."
λάβωμεν γὰρ τῷ λόγῳ· γραφικὴ
γάρ τίς ἐστι τέχνη τὸ ὅλον; —ΙΩΝ. Ναί. —
- τὸ ὅλον what is this phrase doing?
ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν (5)
καὶ γραφῆς πολλοὶ καὶ εἰσὶ καὶ γεγόνασιν ἀγαθοὶ καὶ φαῦ-
λοι; —ΙΩΝ. Πάνυ γε. —ΣΩ. Ἤδη οὖν τινα εἶδες ὅστις περὶ
μὲν Πολυγνώτου τοῦ Ἀγλαοφῶντος δεινός ἐστιν ἀποφαί-
νειν ἃ εὖ τε γράφει καὶ ἃ μή, περὶ δὲ τῶν ἄλλων γραφέων
533.
(a) ἀδύνατος; καὶ ἐπειδὰν μέν τις τὰ τῶν ἄλλων ζωγράφων
ἔργα ἐπιδεικνύῃ, νυστάζει τε καὶ ἀπορεῖ καὶ οὐκ ἔχει ὅτι
συμβάληται, ἐπειδὰν δὲ περὶ Πολυγνώτου ἢ ἄλλου ὅτου
βούλει τῶν γραφέων ἑνὸς μόνου δέῃ ἀποφήνασθαι γνώμην,
ἐγρήγορέν τε καὶ προσέχει τὸν νοῦν καὶ εὐπορεῖ ὅτι εἴπῃ;
— (5)
ΙΩΝ. Οὐ μὰ τὸν Δία, οὐ δῆτα. —ΣΩ. Τί δέ; ἐν ἀνδριαντο-
ποιίᾳ ἤδη τιν’ εἶδες ὅστις περὶ μὲν Δαιδάλου τοῦ Μητίονος
(b) ἢ Ἐπειοῦ τοῦ Πανοπέως ἢ Θεοδώρου τοῦ Σαμίου ἢ ἄλλου
τινὸς ἀνδριαντοποιοῦ ἑνὸς πέρι δεινός ἐστιν ἐξηγεῖσθαι ἃ
εὖ πεποίηκεν, ἐν δὲ τοῖς τῶν ἄλλων ἀνδριαντοποιῶν ἔργοις
ἀπορεῖ τε καὶ νυστάζει, οὐκ ἔχων ὅτι εἴπῃ; —
ΙΩΝ. Οὐ μὰ @1
τὸν Δία, οὐδὲ τοῦτον ἑώρακα. —
-
ἑώρακα is the perfect of ὁράω, to see:
ΣΩ. Ἀλλὰ μήν, ὥς γ’ ἐγὼ (5)
οἶμαι, οὐδ’ ἐν αὐλήσει γε οὐδὲ ἐν κιθαρίσει οὐδὲ ἐν κιθαρῳδίᾳ
οὐδὲ ἐν ῥαψῳδίᾳ οὐδεπώποτ’ εἶδες ἄνδρα ὅστις περὶ μὲν
Ὀλύμπου δεινός ἐστιν ἐξηγεῖσθαι ἢ περὶ Θαμύρου ἢ περὶ
(c) Ὀρφέως ἢ περὶ Φημίου τοῦ Ἰθακησίου ῥαψῳδοῦ, περὶ δὲ
Ἴωνος τοῦ Ἐφεσίου [ῥαψῳδοῦ] ἀπορεῖ καὶ οὐκ ἔχει συμβα-
λέσθαι ἅ τε εὖ ῥαψῳδεῖ καὶ ἃ μή.
-
κῐθάρ-ῐσις, εως, ἡ,
playing on the cithara (kithara + -sis,
which means "action of")
- αὔλ-ησις, εως, ἡ,
flute-playing
- κῐθᾰρῳδ-ία,
ἡ, singing to the kithara (κῐθᾰρ- + ῳδ- + ία =
kithara + song + abstract noun ending)
ΙΩΝ. Οὐκ ἔχω σοι περὶ τούτου ἀντιλέγειν, ὦ Σώκρατες·
ἀλλ’ ἐκεῖνο ἐμαυτῷ σύνοιδα, ὅτι περὶ Ὁμήρου κάλλιστ’ (5)
ἀνθρώπων λέγω καὶ εὐπορῶ καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι πάντες μέ φασιν
εὖ λέγειν, περὶ δὲ τῶν ἄλλων οὔ. καίτοι ὅρα τοῦτο τί
ἔστιν.
- ἀντιλέγειν to say against, to gainsay, to contradict
- σύνοιδα, a perfect with present sense, "be conscious of"
(think σύν + οιδα = con- + sci- = together
know): it takes accusative, but also a dative, as do many verbs
with prepositional prefixes, especially those with σύν-
- εὐπορῶ =
εὐπορ-έω = εὐ
'well/good/sufficient' + πορ- "way, path, resource" + ῶ "verb
ending" = "be well supplied," "have resources," "have plenty"
- καίτοι "although"
- ὅρα imperative
ΣΩ. Καὶ ὁρῶ, ὦ Ἴων, καὶ ἔρχομαί γέ σοι ἀποφανού-
(d) μενος ὅ μοι δοκεῖ τοῦτο εἶναι.
- ἔρχομαί, "go," "come"
-
ἀποφαίνεσθαι
γνώμην "declare one's
opinion"
ἔστι γὰρ τοῦτο τέχνη μὲν
οὐκ ὂν παρὰ σοὶ περὶ Ὁμήρου εὖ λέγειν, ὃ νυνδὴ ἔλεγον,
θεία δὲ δύναμις ἥ σε κινεῖ, ὥσπερ ἐν τῇ λίθῳ ἣν Εὐρι-
πίδης μὲν Μαγνῆτιν ὠνόμασεν, οἱ δὲ πολλοὶ Ἡρακλείαν.
- ἔστι note the accent: normally enclitic, it has that accent
when it begins a sentence.
- τοῦτο the subject of ἔστι
- τέχνη μὲν οὐκ ὂν is a large-ish predicate nominative:
- note that ὂν is a participle of "to be" in the neuter,
agreeing with τοῦτο
- note too that μὲν indicates that:
- the one thing which is right before it goes with it and
what folllows: that one thing is τέχνη
- and that there will in all likelihood be a δὲ that is
somehow parallel to this μὲν and the clause it is in
- οὐκ modifies ὂν, which takes τέχνη as a predicate nominative
- παρὰ σοὶ περὶ Ὁμήρου εὖ λέγειν
- an infinitive phrase that looks to be dependent on τέχνη "a
skill to speak well"
- ὃ νυνδὴ ἔλεγον
- ὃ a relative pronoun that refers back to a previous idea
(that Ion doesn't do what he does via knowledge/skill)
- θεία δὲ δύναμις understand ὂν here too: "being a divine
ability"
- κινεῖ from κινέω "move"
- λίθος "stone": feminine!
-
ὀνομάζω "name," "call"
- οἱ δὲ πολλοὶ
Ἡρακλείαν understand ὠνόμασαν here from previous clause.
καὶ γὰρ αὕτη ἡ λίθος οὐ μόνον αὐτοὺς τοὺς δακτυλίους
ἄγει (5)
τοὺς σιδηροῦς, ἀλλὰ καὶ δύναμιν ἐντίθησι τοῖς δακτυλίοις ...
- μόνον adverbial "only"
- τοὺς δακτυλίους τοὺς σιδηροῦς
-
δακτύλιος 'ring'
- σῐδήρ-εος, α
becomes in Attic contracted to
σιδηροῦς, ᾶ, οῦν
"[made of] steel" "[made of] iron"
- ἐντίθησι, like σύνοιδα, takes an acc. obj. + a dative
object: "put (an acc. obj.) in (a dat. obj.)": dative
are especially frequent with verbal compounds with ἐν-
ὥστ’ αὖ δύνασθαι ταὐτὸν τοῦτο ποιεῖν ὅπερ ἡ λίθος, ἄλλους
(e) ἄγειν δακτυλίους, ὥστ’ ἐνίοτε ὁρμαθὸς μακρὸς πάνυ σιδη-
ρίων καὶ δακτυλίων ἐξ ἀλλήλων ἤρτηται·
- ἐνίοτε "sometimes"
- ἤρτηται from
ἀρτάω, "hang"
"depend" "fasten": Pass.,
pf. ἤρτημαι
πᾶσι δὲ τούτοις
ἐξ ἐκείνης τῆς λίθου ἡ δύναμις ἀνήρτηται.
- ἀνήρτηται = ἀνα- + ἤρτηται (perf. of ἀρτάω) "hang
on," "fasten on"
οὕτω δὲ καὶ ἡ
Μοῦσα ἐνθέους μὲν ποιεῖ αὐτή, διὰ δὲ τῶν ἐνθέων τούτων
ἄλλων ἐνθουσιαζόντων ὁρμαθὸς ἐξαρτᾶται.
- ἐνθέους acc. pl. masc. of "enthused" (with god in them)
- ἄλλων ἐνθουσιαζόντων gen. with ὁρμαθὸς: ἐνθουσιαζ- "to be
enthused" "to be en-godded"
πάντες γὰρ οἵ @1 (5)
τε τῶν ἐπῶν ποιηταὶ οἱ ἀγαθοὶ οὐκ ἐκ τέχνης ἀλλ’ ἔνθεοι
ὄντες καὶ κατεχόμενοι πάντα ταῦτα τὰ καλὰ λέγουσι ποιή-
ματα, καὶ οἱ μελοποιοὶ οἱ ἀγαθοὶ ὡσαύτως, ὥσπερ οἱ κορυ-
534.
(a) βαντιῶντες οὐκ ἔμφρονες ὄντες ὀρχοῦνται, οὕτω καὶ οἱ μελο-
ποιοὶ οὐκ ἔμφρονες ὄντες τὰ καλὰ μέλη ταῦτα ποιοῦσιν,
ἀλλ’ ἐπειδὰν ἐμβῶσιν εἰς τὴν ἁρμονίαν καὶ εἰς τὸν ῥυθμόν,
βακχεύουσι καὶ κατεχόμενοι, ὥσπερ αἱ βάκχαι ἀρύονται ἐκ
τῶν ποταμῶν μέλι καὶ γάλα κατεχόμεναι, ἔμφρονες δὲ
οὖσαι (5)
οὔ, καὶ τῶν μελοποιῶν ἡ ψυχὴ τοῦτο ἐργάζεται, ὅπερ αὐτοὶ
λέγουσι.
Whoah there Plato: that's a bit of a runon sentence: and a little
bit redundantly repetitive on the enthusiasm: but this is just the
first of several long sentences. Let's take it apart.
- πάντες γὰρ οἵ τε τῶν ἐπῶν ποιηταὶ οἱ ἀγαθοὶ οὐκ ἐκ τέχνης ἀλλ’
ἔνθεοι ὄντες καὶ κατεχόμενοι πάντα ταῦτα τὰ καλὰ λέγουσι
ποιήματα, (main clause: subject = πάντες γὰρ οἵ τε τῶν
ἐπῶν ποιηταὶ οἱ ἀγαθοὶ οὐκ ἐκ τέχνης ἀλλ’ ἔνθεοι ὄντες καὶ
κατεχόμενοι: object = πάντα ταῦτα τὰ καλὰ ποιήματα)
- καὶ οἱ μελοποιοὶ οἱ ἀγαθοὶ ὡσαύτως, (understand some verb like
"do", something with no specificity, for this clause)
- ὥσπερ οἱ κορυβαντιῶντες οὐκ ἔμφρονες ὄντες ὀρχοῦνται,
(comparative clause)
- οὕτω καὶ οἱ μελοποιοὶ οὐκ ἔμφρονες ὄντες τὰ καλὰ μέλη ταῦτα
ποιοῦσιν,
- ἀλλ’ ...
- ἐπειδὰν ἐμβῶσιν εἰς τὴν ἁρμονίαν καὶ εἰς τὸν ῥυθμόν,
- .... βακχεύουσι καὶ κατεχόμενοι,
- ὥσπερ αἱ βάκχαι ἀρύονται ἐκ τῶν ποταμῶν μέλι καὶ γάλα
κατεχόμεναι, ἔμφρονες δὲ οὖσαι οὔ,
- καὶ τῶν μελοποιῶν ἡ ψυχὴ τοῦτο ἐργάζεται,
- ὅπερ αὐτοὶ λέγουσι.
VOCAB:
- τῶν ἐπῶν 'of epics': epics were just called τα επη ((LSJ:
ἔπος, older ϝέπος, εος,
τό 'in pl., epic poetry,
opp. μέλη (lyric poetry)')
- κατέχω mostly in Pass., of persons, ῾to be possessed, inspired
- ὡσαύτως 'likewise'
- κορυβαντιῶντες (participle "those engaging in corybantic
rites")
- ἔμφρονες (think about the elements: to be in one's fron is to
be enminded, so it means "in one's right mind" as opposed to the
enthused, whom god has taken hold of)
- ὀρχέομαι 'dance'
- μέλος, εος, τό, 'song'
- βακχεύω to be full of the crazy dancing god Bacchus, you know,
the one that makes you want to run off into the mountains in a
mad frenzy of dance with a posse of other crazies and rip
animals apart and eat them raw, that one: think burning man, but
wilder: not speaking from much experience here: read the
Bacchae)
- ἀρύω 'draw' (liquid, from a well, a pitcher, or something
else)
- ἐμβαίνω literally "go onto" "step into" or the like: note that
it is followed by εἰς, just like "enter into" or "embark on"
λέγουσι γὰρ δήπουθεν πρὸς ἡμᾶς οἱ ποιηταὶ ὅτι
(b) ἀπὸ κρηνῶν μελιρρύτων ἐκ Μουσῶν κήπων τινῶν καὶ ναπῶν
δρεπόμενοι τὰ μέλη ἡμῖν φέρουσιν ὥσπερ αἱ μέλιτται, καὶ
αὐτοὶ οὕτω πετόμενοι· καὶ ἀληθῆ λέγουσι.
-
δήπουθεν = δήπου,
"surely"
- κρήν-η, "well, spring, fountain"
- μελί-ρρῠτος
"honey-flowing"
- κῆπος,
"garden"
- νάπη
[ᾰ], ἡ, woodland vale, dell, glen
- δρέπ-ω, "pluck"
- μέλισσᾰ, "bee"
- πέτομαι, "fly"
κοῦφον γὰρ
χρῆμα ποιητής ἐστιν καὶ πτηνὸν καὶ ἱερόν, καὶ οὐ πρότερον
οἷός τε ποιεῖν πρὶν ἂν ἔνθεός τε γένηται καὶ ἔκφρων καὶ
(5)
ὁ νοῦς μηκέτι ἐν αὐτῷ ἐνῇ· ἕως δ’ ἂν τουτὶ ἔχῃ τὸ κτῆμα,
ἀδύνατος πᾶς ποιεῖν ἄνθρωπός ἐστιν καὶ χρησμῳδεῖν.
- πρὶν ἂν, after a negative leading verb, πρὶν takes indicative
or subjunctive (if the time is indefinite), or optative (if the
leading verb is past, this is an option, but not mandatory):
basically, I'd look up the rules for πρὶν whenever you see it,
unless you are good at remembering these things: you just don't
see it often enough at our rate of reading to make it all that
worth memorizing, but you have to know how to figure it out:
it's in Smyth §§2430ff.
- ἕως δ’ ἂν see note about πρὶν above: same applies to ἕως: it
means 'until' or 'while' or 'as long as' and what it means in
what construction is treated at Smyth §§2422 ff.
- VOCABULARY
- κοῦφος, η, ον,
light, nimble
- χρῆμα, ατος, τό,
thing, good
- ποιεῖν here clearly must mean "to be a
poet" "to make poetry"
- τουτὶ = τουτο + ι (which is an ending that can
be added to certain words and really doesn't do much
to change the meaning except maybe make it "vivid" or
"emphatic" sorta like "here" in "this here fellow is a
bad man")
- χρησμῳδ-έω, deliver oracles, prophesy
ἅτε
οὖν οὐ τέχνῃ ποιοῦντες καὶ πολλὰ λέγοντες καὶ καλὰ περὶ
(c) τῶν πραγμάτων, ὥσπερ σὺ περὶ Ὁμήρου, ἀλλὰ θείᾳ μοίρᾳ,
τοῦτο μόνον οἷός τε ἕκαστος ποιεῖν καλῶς ἐφ’ ὃ ἡ Μοῦσα
αὐτὸν ὥρμησεν, ὁ μὲν διθυράμβους, ὁ δὲ ἐγκώμια, ὁ δὲ
ὑπορχήματα, ὁ δ’ ἔπη, ὁ δ’ ἰάμβους· τὰ δ’ ἄλλα φαῦλος
αὐτῶν ἕκαστός ἐστιν.
- οἷός τε ἕκαστος understand a verb of being here, which
explains the infinitive ποιεῖν καλῶς
- διθυράμβους, ἐγκώμια, ὑπορχήματα, ἔπη, and ἰάμβους are all
objects of ποιεῖν "to compose"
- τὰ δ’ ἄλλα is acc. of respect with φαῦλος
- VOCABULARY
- ἅτε "insofar as" "since" often marks circumstantial
participles as causal
-
ὑπόρχ-ημα, ατος, τό,
song accompanied by dancing and
pantomimic action
- ἴαμβος [ῐ], ὁ,
(a poem in) iambics (short LONG short LONG...)
οὐ γὰρ τέχνῃ ταῦτα λέγουσιν ἀλλὰ (5)
θείᾳ δυνάμει, ἐπεί, εἰ περὶ ἑνὸς τέχνῃ καλῶς ἠπίσταντο
λέγειν, κἂν περὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἁπάντων· διὰ ταῦτα δὲ ὁ θεὸς @1
ἐξαιρούμενος τούτων τὸν νοῦν τούτοις χρῆται ὑπηρέταις καὶ
(d) τοῖς χρησμῳδοῖς καὶ τοῖς μάντεσι τοῖς θείοις, ἵνα ἡμεῖς οἱ
ἀκούοντες εἰδῶμεν ὅτι οὐχ οὗτοί εἰσιν οἱ ταῦτα λέγοντες
οὕτω πολλοῦ ἄξια, οἷς νοῦς μὴ πάρεστιν, ἀλλ’ ὁ θεὸς αὐτός
ἐστιν ὁ λέγων, διὰ τούτων δὲ φθέγγεται πρὸς ἡμᾶς.
- οὐ γὰρ τέχνῃ ταῦτα λέγουσιν
- ἀλλὰ (sc. ταῦτα λέγουσιν) θείᾳ δυνάμει,
- ἐπεί, ...
- εἰ περὶ ἑνὸς τέχνῃ καλῶς ἠπίσταντο λέγειν,
- ... κἂν περὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἁπάντων (sc. ἠπίσταντο)·
- διὰ ταῦτα δὲ ὁ θεὸς, ἐξαιρούμενος τούτων τὸν νοῦν, τούτοις
χρῆται ὑπηρέταις καὶ τοῖς χρησμῳδοῖς καὶ τοῖς μάντεσι τοῖς
θείοις,
- ἵνα ἡμεῖς οἱ ἀκούοντες εἰδῶμεν
- ὅτι οὐχ οὗτοί εἰσιν οἱ ταῦτα λέγοντες οὕτω πολλοῦ ἄξια,
- ἀλλ’ ὁ θεὸς αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ λέγων,
- διὰ τούτων (sc. the poets and prophets and mantics) δὲ (ὁ
θεὸς) φθέγγεται πρὸς ἡμᾶς.
μέ-
γιστον δὲ τεκμήριον τῷ λόγῳ Τύννιχος ὁ Χαλκιδεύς,
ὃς (5)
ἄλλο μὲν οὐδὲν πώποτε ἐποίησε ποίημα ὅτου τις ἂν ἀξιώ-
σειεν μνησθῆναι, τὸν δὲ παίωνα ὃν πάντες ᾄδουσι, σχεδόν
τι πάντων μελῶν κάλλιστον, ἀτεχνῶς, ὅπερ αὐτὸς λέγει,
(e) “εὕρημά τι Μοισᾶν.”
- μέγιστον δὲ τεκμήριον τῷ λόγῳ Τύννιχος ὁ Χαλκιδεύς (sc. "is"),
- ὃς ἄλλο μὲν οὐδὲν πώποτε ἐποίησε ποίημα
- ὅτου τις ἂν ἀξιώσειεν μνησθῆναι,
- τὸν δὲ παίωνα (sc. ἐποίησε)
- σχεδόν τι πάντων μελῶν κάλλιστον, (appositional to τὸν παίωνα)
- ἀτεχνῶς “εὕρημά τι Μοισᾶν.” (appositional to τὸν παίωνα)
- ὅπερ αὐτὸς (Τύννιχος ὁ Χαλκιδεύς) λέγει,
- VOCABULARY
- τεκμήριον proof
- μνησθῆναι takes gen.
-
Παιών, παιών,
παιάν,
paean, i.e. choral song
- ἀτεχνῶς
"really," "simply," "absolutely," "basically"
- εὕρημά
from the stem of ευρισκω + -μα (added to verbal stems to
mean "the result of _____")
ἐν τούτῳ γὰρ δὴ μάλιστά μοι δοκεῖ
ὁ θεὸς ἐνδείξασθαι ἡμῖν, ἵνα μὴ διστάζωμεν, ὅτι οὐκ ἀνθρώ-
πινά ἐστιν τὰ καλὰ ταῦτα ποιήματα οὐδὲ ἀνθρώπων, ἀλλὰ
θεῖα καὶ θεῶν, οἱ δὲ ποιηταὶ οὐδὲν ἀλλ’ ἢ ἑρμηνῆς εἰσιν
τῶν θεῶν, κατεχόμενοι ἐξ ὅτου ἂν ἕκαστος κατέχηται. (5)
- ἐν τούτῳ γὰρ δὴ μάλιστά μοι δοκεῖ ὁ θεὸς ἐνδείξασθαι ἡμῖν,
- ἵνα μὴ διστάζωμεν,
- ὅτι οὐκ ἀνθρώπινά ἐστιν τὰ καλὰ ταῦτα ποιήματα
- οὐδὲ (ἐστιν τὰ καλὰ ταῦτα ποιήματα) ἀνθρώπων, (ἀνθρώπων is
a predicate genitive)
- ἀλλὰ (ἐστιν τὰ καλὰ ταῦτα ποιήματα) θεῖα καὶ θεῶν,
- οἱ δὲ ποιηταὶ οὐδὲν ἀλλ’ ἢ ἑρμηνῆς εἰσιν τῶν θεῶν,
κατεχόμενοι
- ἐξ ὅτου ἂν ἕκαστος κατέχηται.
- VOCABULARY
- ἐνδείξασθαι "make a demonstration," "demonstrate"
- διστάζω doubt,
hesitate
οὐδὲν ἀλλ’ ἢ has an entry in LSJ (
ἀλλ’ ἢ): we were right to
query it, but they don't offer a real explanation, just a
diagnosis
ταῦτα ἐνδεικνύμενος ὁ θεὸς ἐξεπίτηδες διὰ τοῦ φαυλοτάτου
535.
(a) ποιητοῦ τὸ κάλλιστον μέλος ᾖσεν· ἢ οὐ δοκῶ σοι ἀληθῆ
λέγειν, ὦ Ἴων;
- ἐξεπίτηδες "on purpose," "expressly"
- ᾖσεν aor. of
ᾄδω
"sing"
ΙΩΝ. Ναὶ μὰ τὸν Δία, ἔμοιγε· ἅπτει γάρ πώς μου τοῖς
λόγοις τῆς ψυχῆς, ὦ Σώκρατες, καί μοι δοκοῦσι θείᾳ μοίρᾳ
ἡμῖν παρὰ τῶν θεῶν ταῦτα οἱ ἀγαθοὶ ποιηταὶ ἑρμηνεύειν.
(5)
ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν ὑμεῖς αὖ οἱ ῥαψῳδοὶ τὰ τῶν ποιητῶν ἑρμη-
νεύετε;
- Ναὶ μὰ τὸν Δία, ἔμοιγε = Ναὶ μὰ τὸν Δία, ἔμοιγε δοκεῖς ἀληθῆ
λέγειν
- τὰ τῶν ποιητῶν = the words/poems/subjectmatter of the poets
- VOCABULARY
-
ἅπτω "grasp," "touch,"
"affect" + gen.
ΙΩΝ. Καὶ τοῦτο ἀληθὲς λέγεις.
ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν ἑρμηνέων ἑρμηνῆς γίγνεσθε;
ΙΩΝ. Παντάπασί γε. (10)
- Παντάπασί adverb "completely," "altogether"
(b) ΣΩ. Ἔχε δή μοι τόδε εἰπέ, ὦ Ἴων, καὶ μὴ ἀποκρύψῃ
ὅτι ἄν σε ἔρωμαι·
-
LSJ AI9: imper.ἔχε attend!
listen!--a rare use of this verb with this meaning
- μὴ+ aor. subj. is used for
prohibitions instead of μὴ+ aor imperative
- ὅτι ἄν σε ἔρωμαι an
indefinite relative clause
ὅταν εὖ εἴπῃς ἔπη καὶ ἐκπλήξῃς μάλιστα
τοὺς θεωμένους, ἢ τὸν Ὀδυσσέα ὅταν ἐπὶ τὸν οὐδὸν ἐφαλ-
λόμενον ᾄδῃς, ἐκφανῆ γιγνόμενον τοῖς μνηστῆρσι καὶ ἐκ- @1
χέοντα τοὺς ὀιστοὺς πρὸ τῶν ποδῶν, ἢ Ἀχιλλέα ἐπὶ
τὸν (5)
Ἕκτορα ὁρμῶντα, ἢ καὶ τῶν περὶ Ἀνδρομάχην ἐλεινῶν τι ἢ
περὶ Ἑκάβην ἢ περὶ Πρίαμον, τότε πότερον ἔμφρων εἶ ἢ ἔξω
(c) σαυτοῦ γίγνῃ καὶ παρὰ τοῖς πράγμασιν οἴεταί σου εἶναι ἡ
ψυχὴ οἷς λέγεις ἐνθουσιάζουσα, ἢ ἐν Ἰθάκῃ οὖσιν ἢ ἐν
Τροίᾳ ἢ ὅπως ἂν καὶ τὰ ἔπη ἔχῃ;
I'm just going to fill in whatever needs to be supplied from
elsewhere in the sentence in what follows. I'll put the filled in
words in parentheses
- ὅταν εὖ εἴπῃς ἔπη
- καὶ (ὅταν) ἐκπλήξῃς μάλιστα τοὺς θεωμένους,
- ἢ τὸν Ὀδυσσέα ὅταν ἐπὶ τὸν οὐδὸν ἐφαλλόμενον
ᾄδῃς, ἐκφανῆ γιγνόμενον τοῖς μνηστῆρσι καὶ ἐκχέοντα τοὺς
ὀιστοὺς πρὸ τῶν ποδῶν, unusually, ὅταν occurs a few words into
the clause: usually the subordinating conjunction occurs at
the start of the clause: but it's not super unusual for it not
to...
- ἢ (ὅταν ᾄδῃς) Ἀχιλλέα ἐπὶ τὸν Ἕκτορα ὁρμῶντα,
- ἢ (ὅταν ᾄδῃς) καὶ τῶν περὶ Ἀνδρομάχην ἐλεινῶν τι
- ἢ (ὅταν ᾄδῃς) περὶ Ἑκάβην
- ἢ (ὅταν ᾄδῃς) περὶ Πρίαμον,
- τότε πότερον ἔμφρων εἶ
- ἢ ἔξω σαυτοῦ γίγνῃ
- καὶ παρὰ τοῖς πράγμασιν οἴεταί σου εἶναι ἡ ψυχὴ
- (παρὰ) οἷς λέγεις ἐνθουσιάζουσα, relative clause, but the
relative pronoun is in the case of its antecedent rather than
the case it "should" be in, which is accusative, because it is
the direct object of λέγεις
- ἢ ὅπως ἂν καὶ τὰ ἔπη ἔχῃ;
- VOCABULARY
-
ἐκφαν-ής, ές,"manifest"
"revealed"
ΙΩΝ. Ὡς ἐναργές μοι τοῦτο, ὦ Σώκρατες, τὸ τεκμήριον
εἶπες· οὐ γάρ σε ἀποκρυψάμενος ἐρῶ. ἐγὼ γὰρ ὅταν
(5)
ἐλεινόν τι λέγω, δακρύων ἐμπίμπλανταί μου οἱ ὀφθαλμοί·
ὅταν τε φοβερὸν ἢ δεινόν, ὀρθαὶ αἱ τρίχες ἵστανται ὑπὸ
φόβου καὶ ἡ καρδία πηδᾷ.
- VOCAB
- ἐναργές clear, lucid, obvious
-
δάκρυον, τό, tear (from the eye)
- ἐμπίμπλημι be full of
-
θρίξ, ἡ, gen. τρῐχός,
dat. pl. θριξί hair (note
the cool dissimilation that accounts for the shift from
theta to tau)
- πηδ-άω leap
(d) ΣΩ. Τί οὖν; φῶμεν, ὦ Ἴων, ἔμφρονα εἶναι τότε τοῦτον
τὸν ἄνθρωπον, ὃς ἂν κεκοσμημένος ἐσθῆτι ποικίλῃ καὶ
χρυσοῖσι στεφάνοις κλάῃ τ’ ἐν θυσίαις καὶ ἑορταῖς, μηδὲν
ἀπολωλεκὼς τούτων, ἢ φοβῆται πλέον ἢ ἐν δισμυρίοις ἀνθρώ-
ποις ἑστηκὼς φιλίοις, μηδενὸς ἀποδύοντος μηδὲ
ἀδικοῦντος; (5)
- VOCAB
-
ἐσθής, ῆτος, f., clothing
- ποικίλος, η, ον,
variegated, colorful
- κλάω cry, wail, lament
- θῠσί-α, f., sacrifice,
burnt-offering
- ἑορτή,
f., festival, feast
- ἀπόλλῡμι,
lose
- δισ-μύριοι [ῡ], αι, α, twenty thousand
- ἀπο-δύω, strip, take off
one's clothes (presumably for
wrassling)
ΙΩΝ. Οὐ μὰ τὸν Δία, οὐ πάνυ, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὥς γε
τἀληθὲς εἰρῆσθαι.
- εἰρῆσθαι perf. inf. of
λέγω
ΣΩ. Οἶσθα οὖν ὅτι καὶ τῶν θεατῶν τοὺς πολλοὺς ταὐτὰ
ταῦτα ὑμεῖς ἐργάζεσθε;
-
θεᾱτ-ής,
οῦ, ὁ,
(from θεάομαι + agent
ending), spectator, one who sees
- ἐργάζομαι
bring ___ about (as an effect), effect, make, cause,
work (clearly takes acc. of person and acc. of thing)
(e) ΙΩΝ. Καὶ μάλα καλῶς οἶδα· καθορῶ γὰρ ἑκάστοτε
αὐτοὺς ἄνωθεν ἀπὸ τοῦ βήματος κλάοντάς τε καὶ δεινὸν
ἐμβλέποντας καὶ συνθαμβοῦντας τοῖς λεγομένοις.
- VOCABULARY
- συνθαμβεω be astounded
- δεινὸν ἐμβλέπω apparently this verb can take δεινὸν or
another accusative: it must mean something like "looking
fiercely" or "looking a terrified look": how do I know that?
Because that is what fits the semantic hole left there if we
take it out, and because the dictionary lists this passage and
only one other, so it's a bit idiomatic.
δεῖ γάρ
με καὶ σφόδρ’ αὐτοῖς τὸν νοῦν προσέχειν· ὡς ἐὰν μὲν
κλάοντας αὐτοὺς καθίσω, αὐτὸς γελάσομαι ἀργύριον
λαμβά- (5)
νων, ἐὰν δὲ γελῶντας, αὐτὸς κλαύσομαι ἀργύριον ἀπολλύς.
- καθίσω literally "I will sit (them) down": this means
something like "I will make (them) (weep)" or "I will put (them)
in a (weeping) state"
- γελάω laugh
- ἀπόλλυμι lose
-
κλάω cry
ΣΩ. Οἶσθα οὖν ὅτι οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ θεατὴς τῶν δακτυλίων
ὁ ἔσχατος, ὧν ἐγὼ ἔλεγον ὑπὸ τῆς Ἡρακλειώτιδος λίθου
ἀπ’ ἀλλήλων τὴν δύναμιν λαμβάνειν;
ὁ δὲ μέσος σὺ ὁ @1
536.
(a) ῥαψῳδὸς καὶ ὑποκριτής, ὁ δὲ πρῶτος αὐτὸς ὁ ποιητής· ὁ δὲ
θεὸς διὰ πάντων τούτων ἕλκει τὴν ψυχὴν ὅποι ἂν βούληται
τῶν ἀνθρώπων, ἀνακρεμαννὺς ἐξ ἀλλήλων τὴν δύναμιν.
-
ἕλκω drag
- ὅποι indirect relative
interrogative "whither"
- ἀνακρεμ-άννῡμι hang on, depend on;
make dependent on
καὶ ὥσπερ ἐκ τῆς λίθου ἐκείνης ὁρμαθὸς πάμπολυς ἐξήρ-
τηται χορευτῶν τε καὶ διδασκάλων καὶ ὑποδιδασκάλων,
ἐκ (5)
πλαγίου ἐξηρτημένων τῶν τῆς Μούσης ἐκκρεμαμένων δα-
κτυλίων.
- ὑπο- can mean "under" or "sub" and so this is an assistant
teacher/director
-
πλάγιος [ᾰ],
α, ον
sideways
καὶ ὁ μὲν τῶν ποιητῶν ἐξ ἄλλης Μούσης, ὁ δὲ
ἐξ ἄλλης ἐξήρτηται—ὀνομάζομεν δὲ αὐτὸ 'κατέχεται,' τὸ δέ
(b) ἐστι παραπλήσιον· ἔχεται γάρ—ἐκ δὲ τούτων τῶν πρώτων
δακτυλίων, τῶν ποιητῶν, ἄλλοι ἐξ ἄλλου αὖ ἠρτημένοι εἰσὶ
καὶ ἐνθουσιάζουσιν, οἱ μὲν ἐξ Ὀρφέως, οἱ δὲ ἐκ Μουσαίου·
οἱ δὲ πολλοὶ ἐξ Ὁμήρου κατέχονταί τε καὶ ἔχονται.
ὧν
σύ, ὦ Ἴων, εἷς εἶ καὶ κατέχῃ ἐξ Ὁμήρου, καὶ ἐπειδὰν μέν
(5)
τις ἄλλου του ποιητοῦ ᾄδῃ, καθεύδεις τε καὶ ἀπορεῖς ὅτι
λέγῃς, ἐπειδὰν δὲ τούτου τοῦ ποιητοῦ φθέγξηταί τις μέλος,
εὐθὺς ἐγρήγορας καὶ ὀρχεῖταί σου ἡ ψυχὴ καὶ εὐπορεῖς ὅτι
(c) λέγῃς·
- ἄλλου του ποιητοῦ possessive genitive with τις: note that
τουhas no accent and so is an indefinite form, an alternative
form of τινος
οὐ γὰρ τέχνῃ οὐδ’ ἐπιστήμῃ περὶ Ὁμήρου λέγεις
ἃ λέγεις, ἀλλὰ θείᾳ μοίρᾳ καὶ κατοκωχῇ, ὥσπερ οἱ κορυ-
βαντιῶντες ἐκείνου μόνου αἰσθάνονται τοῦ μέλους ὀξέως
ὃ ἂν ᾖ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐξ ὅτου ἂν κατέχωνται, καὶ εἰς ἐκεῖνο τὸ
μέλος καὶ σχημάτων καὶ ῥημάτων εὐποροῦσι, τῶν δὲ ἄλλων
(5)
οὐ φροντίζουσιν·
οὕτω καὶ σύ, ὦ Ἴων, περὶ μὲν Ὁμήρου
ὅταν τις μνησθῇ, εὐπορεῖς, περὶ δὲ τῶν ἄλλων ἀπορεῖς·
(d) τούτου δ’ ἐστὶ τὸ αἴτιον, ὅ μ’ ἐρωτᾷς, δι’ ὅτι σὺ περὶ μὲν
Ὁμήρου εὐπορεῖς, περὶ δὲ τῶν ἄλλων οὔ, ὅτι οὐ τέχνῃ ἀλλὰ
θείᾳ μοίρᾳ Ὁμήρου δεινὸς εἶ ἐπαινέτης.
ΙΩΝ. Σὺ μὲν εὖ λέγεις, ὦ Σώκρατες· θαυμάζοιμι μεντἂν
εἰ οὕτως εὖ εἴποις, ὥστε με ἀναπεῖσαι ὡς ἐγὼ
κατεχόμενος (5)
καὶ μαινόμενος Ὅμηρον ἐπαινῶ.
οἶμαι δὲ οὐδ’ ἂν σοὶ
δόξαιμι, εἴ μου ἀκούσαις λέγοντος περὶ Ὁμήρου.
- οἶμαι δὲ οὐδ’ ἂν σοὶ δόξαιμι (λέγειν κατεχόμενοσ καὶ
μαινόμενος)
- δοκέω seem
ΣΩ. Καὶ μὴν ἐθέλω γε ἀκοῦσαι, οὐ μέντοι πρότερον
(e) πρὶν ἄν μοι ἀποκρίνῃ τόδε· ὧν Ὅμηρος λέγει περὶ τίνος
εὖ λέγεις; οὐ γὰρ δήπου περὶ ἁπάντων γε.
- ὧν Ὅμηρος λέγει περὶ τίνος εὖ λέγεις; == περὶ τίνος τούτων
ἃ Ὅμηρος λέγει εὖ λέγεις;
ΙΩΝ. Εὖ ἴσθι, ὦ Σώκρατες, περὶ οὐδενὸς ὅτου οὔ.
ΣΩ. Οὐ δήπου καὶ περὶ τούτων ὧν σὺ μὲν τυγχάνεις
οὐκ εἰδώς, Ὅμηρος δὲ λέγει. (5)
- τυγχάνεις "you happen to be": this verb often takes a
participle
ΙΩΝ. Καὶ ταῦτα ποῖά ἐστιν ἃ Ὅμηρος μὲν λέγει, ἐγὼ
δὲ οὐκ οἶδα;
537.
(a) ΣΩ. Οὐ καὶ περὶ τεχνῶν μέντοι λέγει πολλαχοῦ Ὅμηρος
καὶ πολλά; οἷον καὶ περὶ ἡνιοχείας—ἐὰν μνησθῶ τὰ ἔπη,
ἐγώ σοι φράσω.
- ἡνιοχεία chariot-driving (rein-holding)
ΙΩΝ. Ἀλλ’ ἐγὼ ἐρῶ· ἐγὼ γὰρ μέμνημαι.
ΣΩ. Εἰπὲ δή μοι ἃ λέγει Νέστωρ Ἀντιλόχῳ τῷ
ὑεῖ, (5)
παραινῶν εὐλαβηθῆναι περὶ τὴν καμπὴν ἐν τῇ ἱπποδρομίᾳ
τῇ ἐπὶ Πατρόκλῳ.
- παραινῶν "urging, advising, recommending"
-
εὐλαβ-έομαι to take care
-
καμπή turning post (in a race)
ΙΩΝ. Κλινθῆναι δέ, φησί, καὶ αὐτὸς ἐυξέστῳ ἐνὶ
δίφρῳ (7)
(b) ἦκ’ ἐπ’ ἀριστερὰ
τοῖιν· ἀτὰρ τὸν δεξιὸν ἵππον
κένσαι ὁμοκλήσας, εἶξαί
τέ οἱ ἡνία χερσίν.
ἐν νύσσῃ δέ τοι ἵππος
ἀριστερὸς ἐγχριμφθήτω,
ὡς ἄν τοι πλήμνη γε
δοάσσεται ἄκρον ἱκέσθαι
κύκλου ποιητοῖο· λίθου δ’
ἀλέασθαι ἐπαυρεῖν. (5)
-
κλίνω in passive "lean" "stay on"
- τοῖιν dual referring to "them," the turning
points of the course (
τέρματ’ in passage below)
- κένσαι goad (inf. used as imperative)
-
ὁμοκλ-άω shout out, encourage
- εἴκω yield (inf. = imperative)
- οἱ dative singular "to him"
- νύσσα, ης, ἡ
racecourse
- ἐγ-χρίμπτω bring near
- πλήμνη,
ἡ, nave of a wheel
- δοιάζω or δοάζω, consider in two ways, be
in two minds, be of a mind to
- ἀλέομαι
avoid
- ἐπαυρ-έω touch
ILIAD 23.333ff (underlined part is our passage: only the
italicized word is different)
(c) ΣΩ. Ἀρκεῖ. ταῦτα δή, ὦ Ἴων, τὰ ἔπη εἴτε ὀρθῶς λέγει
Ὅμηρος εἴτε μή, πότερος ἂν γνοίη ἄμεινον, ἰατρὸς ἢ ἡνίο-
χος; —
- εἴτε ... εἴτε whether ... or (introduces alternative
conditional)
ΙΩΝ. Ἡνίοχος δήπου. —ΣΩ. Πότερον ὅτι τέχνην
ταύτην ἔχει ἢ κατ’ ἄλλο τι; —ΙΩΝ. Οὔκ, ἀλλ’ ὅτι τέχνην.
- ἀλλ’ ὅτι (ταύτην ἔχει) τέχνην
—ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν ἑκάστῃ τῶν τεχνῶν ἀποδέδοταί τι ὑπὸ
τοῦ (5)
θεοῦ ἔργον οἵᾳ τε εἶναι γιγνώσκειν;
- οἵᾳ τε εἶναι = δυνασθαι, but in dative agreeing with ἑκάστῃ.
Hope that makes sense. = "by which to be able."
οὐ γάρ που ἃ κυβερνη-
τικῇ γιγνώσκομεν, γνωσόμεθα καὶ ἰατρικῇ. —ΙΩΝ. Οὐ δῆτα.
—ΣΩ. Οὐδέ γε ἃ ἰατρικῇ, ταῦτα καὶ τεκτονικῇ. —
- Οὐδέ γε ἃ (γιγνώσκομεν) ἰατρικῇ, ταῦτα καὶ τεκτονικῇ
(γιγνώσκομεν)
ΙΩΝ.
(d) Οὐ δῆτα. —ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν οὕτω καὶ κατὰ πασῶν τῶν τεχνῶν,
ἃ τῇ ἑτέρᾳ τέχνῃ γιγνώσκομεν, οὐ γνωσόμεθα τῇ ἑτέρᾳ;
τόδε δέ μοι πρότερον τούτου ἀπόκριναι· τὴν μὲν ἑτέραν φῂς
εἶναί τινα τέχνην, τὴν δ’ ἑτέραν; —ΙΩΝ. Ναί. —ΣΩ. Ἆρα
ὥσπερ ἐγὼ τεκμαιρόμενος, ὅταν ἡ μὲν ἑτέρων πραγμάτων
ᾖ (5)
ἐπιστήμη, ἡ δ’ ἑτέρων, οὕτω καλῶ τὴν μὲν ἄλλην, τὴν δὲ ἄλλην
(e) τέχνην, οὕτω καὶ σύ; —ΙΩΝ. Ναί. —ΣΩ. Εἰ γάρ που τῶν
αὐτῶν πραγμάτων ἐπιστήμη εἴη τις, τί ἂν τὴν μὲν ἑτέραν
φαῖμεν εἶναι, τὴν δ’ ἑτέραν, ὁπότε γε ταὐτὰ εἴη εἰδέναι ἀπ’
ἀμφοτέρων; ὥσπερ ἐγώ τε γιγνώσκω ὅτι πέντε εἰσὶν οὗτοι
οἱ δάκτυλοι, καὶ σύ, ὥσπερ ἐγώ, περὶ τούτων ταὐτὰ
γιγνώ- (5)
σκεις· καὶ εἴ σε ἐγὼ ἐροίμην εἰ τῇ αὐτῇ τέχνῃ γιγνώσκομεν
τῇ ἀριθμητικῇ τὰ αὐτὰ ἐγώ τε καὶ σὺ ἢ ἄλλῃ, φαίης ἂν
δήπου τῇ αὐτῇ. —ΙΩΝ. Ναί.
538.
(a) ΣΩ. Ὃ τοίνυν ἄρτι ἔμελλον ἐρήσεσθαί σε, νυνὶ εἰπέ,
εἰ
κατὰ πασῶν τῶν τεχνῶν οὕτω σοι δοκεῖ, τῇ μὲν αὐτῇ τέχνῃ
τὰ αὐτὰ ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι γιγνώσκειν, τῇ δ’ ἑτέρᾳ μὴ τὰ αὐτά,
ἀλλ’ εἴπερ ἄλλη ἐστίν, ἀναγκαῖον καὶ ἕτερα γιγνώσκειν. —
ΙΩΝ. Οὕτω μοι δοκεῖ, ὦ Σώκρατες. —ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν ὅστις ἂν
(5)
μὴ ἔχῃ τινὰ τέχνην, ταύτης τῆς τέχνης τὰ λεγόμενα ἢ
πραττόμενα καλῶς γιγνώσκειν οὐχ οἷός τ’ ἔσται; —ΙΩΝ.
(b) Ἀληθῆ λέγεις. —ΣΩ. Πότερον οὖν περὶ τῶν ἐπῶν ὧν εἶπες,
εἴτε καλῶς λέγει Ὅμηρος εἴτε μή, σὺ κάλλιον γνώσῃ ἢ
ἡνίοχος; —ΙΩΝ. Ἡνίοχος. —ΣΩ. Ῥαψῳδὸς γάρ που εἶ ἀλλ’
οὐχ ἡνίοχος. —ΙΩΝ. Ναί. —ΣΩ. Ἡ δὲ ῥαψῳδικὴ τέχνη
ἑτέρα ἐστὶ τῆς ἡνιοχικῆς; —ΙΩΝ. Ναί. —ΣΩ. Εἰ ἄρα
ἑτέρα, (5)
περὶ ἑτέρων καὶ ἐπιστήμη πραγμάτων ἐστίν. —ΙΩΝ. Ναί.
ΣΩ. Τί δὲ δὴ ὅταν Ὅμηρος λέγῃ ὡς τετρωμένῳ τῷ
Μαχάονι Ἑκαμήδη ἡ Νέστορος παλλακὴ κυκεῶνα πίνειν
(c) δίδωσι; καὶ λέγει πως οὕτως— @1
οἴνῳ πραμνείῳ, φησίν, ἐπὶ δ’ αἴγειον κνῆ τυρὸν
κνήστι χαλκείῃ· παρὰ δὲ κρόμυον ποτῷ ὄψον·
ταῦτα εἴτε ὀρθῶς λέγει Ὅμηρος εἴτε μή, πότερον ἰατρικῆς
(3)
ἐστι διαγνῶναι καλῶς ἢ ῥαψῳδικῆς;
ΙΩΝ. Ἰατρικῆς. (5)
ΣΩ. Τί δέ, ὅταν λέγῃ Ὅμηρος—
(d) ἡ δὲ μολυβδαίνῃ ἰκέλη ἐς βυσσὸν ἵκανεν,
ἥ τε κατ’ ἀγραύλοιο βοὸς κέρας ἐμμεμαυῖα
ἔρχεται ὠμηστῇσι μετ’ ἰχθύσι πῆμα φέρουσα·
ταῦτα πότερον φῶμεν ἁλιευτικῆς εἶναι τέχνης μᾶλλον
κρῖναι (3)
ἢ ῥαψῳδικῆς, ἅττα λέγει καὶ εἴτε καλῶς εἴτε μή;
ΙΩΝ. Δῆλον δή, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὅτι ἁλιευτικῆς.
(5)
ΣΩ. Σκέψαι δή, σοῦ ἐρομένου, εἰ ἔροιό με· “Ἐπειδὴ
(e) τοίνυν, ὦ Σώκρατες, τούτων τῶν τεχνῶν ἐν Ὁμήρῳ εὑρίσκεις
ἃ προσήκει ἑκάστῃ διακρίνειν, ἴθι μοι ἔξευρε καὶ τὰ τοῦ
μάντεώς τε καὶ μαντικῆς, ποῖά ἐστιν ἃ προσήκει αὐτῷ οἵῳ
τ’ εἶναι διαγιγνώσκειν, εἴτε εὖ εἴτε κακῶς πεποίηται” —
σκέψαι ὡς ῥᾳδίως τε καὶ ἀληθῆ ἐγώ σοι
ἀποκρινοῦμαι. (5)
πολλαχοῦ μὲν γὰρ καὶ ἐν Ὀδυσσείᾳ λέγει, οἷον καὶ ἃ ὁ
τῶν Μελαμποδιδῶν λέγει μάντις πρὸς τοὺς μνηστῆρας,
Θεοκλύμενος—
539. (Odyssey 20.351)
(a) δαιμόνιοι, τί κακὸν τόδε πάσχετε; νυκτὶ
μὲν ὑμέων
εἰλύαται κεφαλαί τε πρόσωπά τε νέρθε τε γυῖα,
οἰμωγὴ δὲ δέδηε, δεδάκρυνται δὲ παρειαί· @1
(
αἵματι
δ’
ἐρράδαται
τοῖχοι
καλαί
τε
μεσόδμαι·)--this
line is there in our texts of the epic, but not in Plato
εἰδώλων τε πλέον πρόθυρον, πλείη δὲ καὶ αὐλὴ
ἱεμένων ἔρεβόσδε ὑπὸ ζόφον· ἠέλιος δὲ
(5)
(b) οὐρανοῦ ἐξαπόλωλε, κακὴ δ’ ἐπιδέδρομεν
ἀχλύς·
πολλαχοῦ δὲ καὶ ἐν Ἰλιάδι, οἷον καὶ ἐπὶ τειχομαχίᾳ·
λέγει (1)
γὰρ καὶ ἐνταῦθα—
ὄρνις γάρ σφιν ἐπῆλθε περησέμεναι
μεμαῶσιν, (3)
αἰετὸς ὑψιπέτης, ἐπ’ ἀριστερὰ λαὸν ἐέργων,
(c) φοινήεντα δράκοντα φέρων ὀνύχεσσι
πέλωρον,
ζωόν, ἔτ’ ἀσπαίροντα· καὶ οὔπω λήθετο χάρμης.
κόψε γὰρ αὐτὸν ἔχοντα κατὰ στῆθος παρὰ δειρὴν
ἰδνωθεὶς ὀπίσω, ὁ δ’ ἀπὸ ἕθεν ἧκε χαμᾶζε
ἀλγήσας ὀδύνῃσι, μέσῳ δ’ ἐνὶ κάββαλ’
ὁμίλῳ· (5)
(d) αὐτὸς δὲ κλάγξας πέτετο πνοιῇς ἀνέμοιο.
ταῦτα φήσω καὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα τῷ μάντει προσήκειν καὶ σκο-
(1)
πεῖν καὶ κρίνειν.
ΙΩΝ. Ἀληθῆ γε σὺ λέγων, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ. Καὶ σύ γε, ὦ Ἴων, ἀληθῆ ταῦτα λέγεις. ἴθι δὴ καὶ
σὺ ἐμοί, ὥσπερ ἐγὼ σοὶ ἐξέλεξα καὶ ἐξ Ὀδυσσείας καὶ
ἐξ (5)
Ἰλιάδος ὁποῖα τοῦ μάντεώς ἐστι καὶ ὁποῖα τοῦ ἰατροῦ καὶ
(e) ὁποῖα τοῦ ἁλιέως, οὕτω καὶ σὺ ἐμοὶ ἔκλεξον, ἐπειδὴ καὶ
ἐμπειρότερος εἶ ἐμοῦ τῶν Ὁμήρου, ὁποῖα τοῦ ῥαψῳδοῦ ἐστιν,
ὦ Ἴων, καὶ τῆς τέχνης τῆς ῥαψῳδικῆς, ἃ τῷ ῥαψῳδῷ προσ-
ήκει καὶ σκοπεῖσθαι καὶ διακρίνειν παρὰ τοὺς ἄλλους
ἀνθρώπους. (5)
- ἴθι δὴ καὶ σὺ ἐμοί, ...
- ὥσπερ ἐγὼ σοὶ ἐξέλεξα καὶ ἐξ Ὀδυσσείας καὶ ἐξ Ἰλιάδος
- ὁποῖα τοῦ μάντεώς ἐστι καὶ
- ὁποῖα τοῦ ἰατροῦ καὶ (e)
- ὁποῖα τοῦ ἁλιέως,
- οὕτω καὶ σὺ ἐμοὶ ἔκλεξον,
- ἐπειδὴ καὶ ἐμπειρότερος εἶ ἐμοῦ τῶν Ὁμήρου,
- ὁποῖα τοῦ ῥαψῳδοῦ ἐστιν, ὦ Ἴων, καὶ τῆς τέχνης τῆς
ῥαψῳδικῆς,
- ἃ τῷ ῥαψῳδῷ προσήκει καὶ σκοπεῖσθαι καὶ διακρίνειν παρὰ
τοὺς ἄλλους ἀνθρώπους.
ΙΩΝ. Ἐγὼ μέν φημι, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἅπαντα.
- Ἐγὼ μέν φημι, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἅπαντα (τῷ ῥαψῳδῷ προσήκειν καὶ
σκοπεῖσθαι καὶ διακρίνειν παρὰ τοὺς ἄλλους ἀνθρώπους)
ΣΩ. Οὐ σύ γε φῄς, ὦ Ἴων, ἅπαντα· ἢ οὕτως ἐπιλήσμων
εἶ; καίτοι οὐκ ἂν πρέποι γε ἐπιλήσμονα εἶναι ῥαψῳδὸν
ἄνδρα.
- Note that Socrates tells Ion what Ion believes! Socrates likes
to do that! Why? Because he believes that if I believe that all
pigs are blue and I believe that this is a pig, I also believe
that this is blue (even in spite of the fact that I myself claim
it is red). Logical closure of believes.
540.
(a) ΙΩΝ. Τί δὲ δὴ ἐπιλανθάνομαι; @1
- Ion is so amazing: he doesn't bridle at Socrates' suggestion.
He just rolls with the punches.
ΣΩ. Οὐ μέμνησαι ὅτι ἔφησθα τὴν ῥαψῳδικὴν τέχνην
ἑτέραν εἶναι τῆς ἡνιοχικῆς; —ΙΩΝ. Μέμνημαι. —ΣΩ. Οὐκ-
οῦν καὶ ἑτέραν οὖσαν ἕτερα γνώσεσθαι ὡμολόγεις; —ΙΩΝ.
Ναί. —ΣΩ. Οὐκ ἄρα πάντα γε γνώσεται ἡ ῥαψῳδικὴ κατὰ (5)
τὸν σὸν λόγον οὐδὲ ὁ ῥαψῳδός. —ΙΩΝ. Πλήν γε ἴσως τὰ
τοιαῦτα, ὦ Σώκρατες.
(b) ΣΩ. Τὰ τοιαῦτα δὲ λέγεις πλὴν τὰ τῶν ἄλλων τεχνῶν
σχεδόν τι· ἀλλὰ ποῖα δὴ γνώσεται, ἐπειδὴ οὐχ ἅπαντα;
ΙΩΝ. Ἃ πρέπει, οἶμαι ἔγωγε, ἀνδρὶ εἰπεῖν καὶ ὁποῖα
γυναικί, καὶ ὁποῖα δούλῳ καὶ ὁποῖα ἐλευθέρῳ, καὶ ὁποῖα
ἀρχομένῳ καὶ ὁποῖα ἄρχοντι. (5)
ΣΩ. Ἆρα ὁποῖα ἄρχοντι, λέγεις, ἐν θαλάττῃ χειμαζομένου
πλοίου πρέπει εἰπεῖν, ὁ ῥαψῳδὸς γνώσεται κάλλιον ἢ ὁ
κυβερνήτης; —
- ἄρχοντι can take a genitive "rule something/someone"
ΙΩΝ. Οὔκ, ἀλλὰ ὁ κυβερνήτης τοῦτό γε. —
(c) ΣΩ. Ἀλλ’ ὁποῖα ἄρχοντι κάμνοντος πρέπει εἰπεῖν, ὁ
ῥαψῳδὸς γνώσεται κάλλιον ἢ ὁ ἰατρός; —ΙΩΝ. Οὐδὲ
τοῦτο. —ΣΩ. Ἀλλ’ οἷα δούλῳ πρέπει, λέγεις; —ΙΩΝ.
Ναί. —ΣΩ. Οἷον βουκόλῳ λέγεις δούλῳ ἃ πρέπει εἰπεῖν
ἀγριαινουσῶν βοῶν παραμυθουμένῳ, ὁ ῥαψῳδὸς
γνώσεται (5)
ἀλλ’ οὐχ ὁ βουκόλος; —ΙΩΝ. Οὐ δῆτα. —ΣΩ. Ἀλλ’ οἷα
γυναικὶ πρέποντά ἐστιν εἰπεῖν ταλασιουργῷ περὶ ἐρίων
(d) ἐργασίας; —ΙΩΝ. Οὔ. —ΣΩ. Ἀλλ’ οἷα ἀνδρὶ πρέπει εἰπεῖν
γνώσεται στρατηγῷ στρατιώταις παραινοῦντι; —ΙΩΝ. Ναί,
τὰ τοιαῦτα γνώσεται ὁ ῥαψῳδός.
ΣΩ. Τί δέ; ἡ ῥαψῳδικὴ τέχνη στρατηγική ἐστιν;
ΙΩΝ. Γνοίην γοῦν ἂν ἔγωγε οἷα στρατηγὸν πρέπει
εἰπεῖν. (5)
ΣΩ. Ἴσως γὰρ εἶ καὶ στρατηγικός, ὦ Ἴων. καὶ γὰρ εἰ
ἐτύγχανες ἱππικὸς ὢν ἅμα καὶ κιθαριστικός, ἔγνως ἂν ἵππους
(e) εὖ καὶ κακῶς ἱππαζομένους· ἀλλ’ εἴ σ’ ἐγὼ ἠρόμην· “Ποτέρᾳ
δὴ τέχνῃ, ὦ Ἴων, γιγνώσκεις τοὺς εὖ ἱππαζομένους ἵππους; @1
ᾗ ἱππεὺς εἶ ἢ ᾗ κιθαριστής;” τί ἄν μοι ἀπεκρίνω; —ΙΩΝ.
Ἧι ἱππεύς, ἔγωγ’ ἄν. —ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν εἰ καὶ τοὺς εὖ κιθαρί-
ζοντας διεγίγνωσκες, ὡμολόγεις ἄν, ᾗ κιθαριστὴς εἶ,
ταύτῃ (5)
διαγιγνώσκειν, ἀλλ’ οὐχ ᾗ ἱππεύς. —ΙΩΝ. Ναί. —ΣΩ.
Ἐπειδὴ δὲ τὰ στρατιωτικὰ γιγνώσκεις, πότερον ᾗ στρατη-
γικὸς εἶ γιγνώσκεις ἢ ᾗ ῥαψῳδὸς ἀγαθός; —ΙΩΝ. Οὐδὲν
ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ διαφέρειν.
541.
(a) ΣΩ. Πῶς; οὐδὲν λέγεις διαφέρειν; μίαν λέγεις τέχνην
εἶναι τὴν ῥαψῳδικὴν καὶ τὴν στρατηγικὴν ἢ δύο; —ΙΩΝ. Μία
ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ. —ΣΩ. Ὅστις ἄρα ἀγαθὸς ῥαψῳδός ἐστιν, οὗτος
καὶ ἀγαθὸς στρατηγὸς τυγχάνει ὤν; —ΙΩΝ. Μάλιστα, ὦ Σώ-
κρατες. —ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν καὶ ὅστις ἀγαθὸς στρατηγὸς
τυγχάνει (5)
ὤν, ἀγαθὸς καὶ ῥαψῳδός ἐστιν. —ΙΩΝ. Οὐκ αὖ μοι δοκεῖ
τοῦτο. —ΣΩ. Ἀλλ’ ἐκεῖνο μὴν δοκεῖ σοι, ὅστις γε ἀγαθὸς
(b) ῥαψῳδός, καὶ στρατηγὸς ἀγαθὸς εἶναι; —ΙΩΝ. Πάνυ γε. —
ΣΩ. Οὐκοῦν σὺ τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἄριστος ῥαψῳδὸς εἶ; —ΙΩΝ.
Πολύ γε, ὦ Σώκρατες. —ΣΩ. Ἦ καὶ στρατηγός, ὦ Ἴων, τῶν
Ἑλλήνων ἄριστος εἶ; —ΙΩΝ. Εὖ ἴσθι, ὦ Σώκρατες· καὶ
ταῦτά γε ἐκ τῶν Ὁμήρου μαθών. (5)
ΣΩ. Τί δή ποτ’ οὖν πρὸς τῶν θεῶν, ὦ Ἴων, ἀμφότερα
ἄριστος ὢν τῶν Ἑλλήνων, καὶ στρατηγὸς καὶ ῥαψῳδός,
ῥαψῳδεῖς μὲν περιιὼν τοῖς Ἕλλησι, στρατηγεῖς δ’ οὔ; ἢ
(c) ῥαψῳδοῦ μὲν δοκεῖ σοι χρυσῷ στεφάνῳ ἐστεφανωμένου
πολλὴ χρεία εἶναι τοῖς Ἕλλησι, στρατηγοῦ δὲ οὐδεμία;
ΙΩΝ. Ἡ μὲν γὰρ ἡμετέρα, ὦ Σώκρατες, πόλις ἄρχεται
ὑπὸ ὑμῶν καὶ στρατηγεῖται καὶ οὐδὲν δεῖται στρατηγοῦ, ἡ δὲ
ὑμετέρα καὶ ἡ Λακεδαιμονίων οὐκ ἄν με ἕλοιτο
στρατηγόν· (5)
αὐτοὶ γὰρ οἴεσθε ἱκανοὶ εἶναι.
ΣΩ. Ὦ βέλτιστε Ἴων, Ἀπολλόδωρον οὐ γιγνώσκεις τὸν
Κυζικηνόν; @1
ΙΩΝ. Ποῖον τοῦτον;
ΣΩ. Ὃν Ἀθηναῖοι πολλάκις ἑαυτῶν στρατηγὸν
ᾕρηνται (10)
(d) ξένον ὄντα· καὶ Φανοσθένη τὸν Ἄνδριον καὶ Ἡρακλείδην τὸν
Κλαζομένιον, οὓς ἥδε ἡ πόλις ξένους ὄντας, ἐνδειξαμένους
ὅτι ἄξιοι λόγου εἰσί, καὶ εἰς στρατηγίας καὶ εἰς τὰς ἄλλας
ἀρχὰς ἄγει· Ἴωνα δ’ ἄρα τὸν Ἐφέσιον οὐχ αἱρήσεται
στρατηγὸν καὶ τιμήσει, ἐὰν δοκῇ ἄξιος λόγου εἶναι; τί
δέ; (5)
οὐκ Ἀθηναῖοι μέν ἐστε οἱ Ἐφέσιοι τὸ ἀρχαῖον, καὶ ἡ Ἔφεσος
(e) οὐδεμιᾶς ἐλάττων πόλεως; ἀλλὰ γὰρ σύ, ὦ Ἴων, εἰ μὲν ἀληθῆ
λέγεις ὡς τέχνῃ καὶ ἐπιστήμῃ οἷός τε εἶ Ὅμηρον ἐπαινεῖν,
ἀδικεῖς, ὅστις ἐμοὶ ὑποσχόμενος ὡς πολλὰ καὶ καλὰ περὶ
Ὁμήρου ἐπίστασαι καὶ φάσκων ἐπιδείξειν, ἐξαπατᾷς με καὶ
πολλοῦ δεῖς ἐπιδεῖξαι, ὅς γε οὐδὲ ἅττα ἐστὶ ταῦτα περὶ
(5)
ὧν δεινὸς εἶ ἐθέλεις εἰπεῖν, πάλαι ἐμοῦ λιπαροῦντος, ἀλλὰ
ἀτεχνῶς ὥσπερ ὁ Πρωτεὺς παντοδαπὸς γίγνῃ στρεφόμενος
ἄνω καὶ κάτω, ἕως τελευτῶν διαφυγών με στρατηγὸς ἀνεφά-
542.
(a) νης, ἵνα μὴ ἐπιδείξῃς ὡς δεινὸς εἶ τὴν περὶ Ὁμήρου σοφίαν.
εἰ μὲν οὖν τεχνικὸς ὤν, ὅπερ νυνδὴ ἔλεγον, περὶ Ὁμήρου
ὑποσχόμενος ἐπιδείξειν ἐξαπατᾷς με, ἄδικος εἶ· εἰ δὲ μὴ
τεχνικὸς εἶ, ἀλλὰ θείᾳ μοίρᾳ κατεχόμενος ἐξ Ὁμήρου μηδὲν
εἰδὼς πολλὰ καὶ καλὰ λέγεις περὶ τοῦ ποιητοῦ, ὥσπερ ἐγὼ
(5)
εἶπον περὶ σοῦ, οὐδὲν ἀδικεῖς. ἑλοῦ οὖν πότερα βούλει
νομίζεσθαι ὑπὸ ἡμῶν ἄδικος ἀνὴρ εἶναι ἢ θεῖος.
(b) ΙΩΝ. Πολὺ διαφέρει, ὦ Σώκρατες· πολὺ γὰρ κάλλιον τὸ
θεῖον νομίζεσθαι.
ΣΩ. Τοῦτο τοίνυν τὸ κάλλιον ὑπάρχει σοι παρ’ ἡμῖν, ὦ
Ἴων, θεῖον εἶναι καὶ μὴ τεχνικὸν περὶ Ὁμήρου ἐπαινέτην.