Minutes of the meeting of Feb 4, 2005

Cherise I. Brown Varela

1. With the help of J.G.A. Pocock’s chapter "Some Europes in their History" (The Idea of Europe, pp 55-71) we questioned today: where does Europe end? We mentioned the European Studies Program here at the university and its definitions of Europe. It's an illusion, someone (Julia Howe?) mentioned; all countries are unique, so do the parts add up to a whole? We mentioned the influences on the "construction" of Europe. The conceptualizing of "Europe," is not physical, but more an idea. We also briefly mentioned "Europe-skeptics" who believe, as Pagden has them say, that "European identity is: at best, an illusion. Europe now exists as an economical, and increasingly political, entity. But this has no wider cultural or affective meaning. It merely describes the signatory states of the Maastricht Treaty” (Pagden, The Idea of Europe, 33). Professor Mahoney observed, however, that Pagden then provides his own interpretation of European identity: “Yet if that is all that Europe was now, or had ever been, the Maastricht Treaty would never have come into being" (Pagden, 33). We questioned whether Europe today has only an economic or political meaning. We also questioned whether it has a wider cultural or affective (emotional) meaning. We discussed briefly how between 1945 and 1989 Europe was in the backwaters. Some would have said that the European age was over.

2. Darrah brought up the Christendom aspect of Rome's influence on Europe. This led to a discussion about the Roman empire, as a Mediterranean empire, and the fall of it in two stages: in the West, through the Germanic invasions, and then all of Roman African and most of Roman Asia through Islamic conquests.

3. We then returned to the discussion of Europe as a continent. We agreed that it can definitely be defined as part of an actual continent: Eurasia. In the modern definition of a continent, coined by map makers, Europe is more like a subcontinent. An example of this would be Ukraine. Ukraine is mentioned to be part of the oldest Europe in The History of the Idea of Europe. It is where Europe and Asia come together. Most would say yes, that it is part of Eurasia. In looking at modern Europe, we pointed out that it is hard to define the borderline, and this is a big problem they are debating today in the European Union. That has been the big question ever since the 1700s. Ukraine has constantly been debated as to its origins. Does it belong to Russia or Europe? In the 18th, 19th & 20th centuries the big question was how far "east" does "Europe" go? An example of this is the question of Poland's placement within the geopolitics of European boundaries (Austria, Prussia, and Russia dissolved Poland in 1795 and absorbed it into their respective realms.). We also asked what about the Ottoman / Turkish Empire? Why was this not regarded as part of Europe during this same time period? (See Pocock’s chapter for more details, especially pages 66ff.). The deciding factor in this debate may boil down to religion.

4. We spoke of "civilization." The idea that Rome founded was: "we're civilized and we bring it to the world." In the entirety of the last paragraph on page eighteen in The History of the Idea of Europe this is outlined. We mentioned "European self-fashioning" and also how Asians allegedly don't act on their intelligence. This idea even goes back to ancient Greek thought (See Aristotle on page 17 for this bizarre stereotype, where he sees the Greeks as combining the best aspects of the Europeans and the Asians and thus capable of ruling over all other peoples).

5. We also spoke briefly about The Enlightenment Narrative, as outlined by Pocock in his chapter. This was a time when the state took a non-religious standing. Europe very decidedly changed. It downplayed religion more than before. Europeans saw themselves as on the other side of the Middle Ages. They were for "secular" ideas. Europeans of the Enlightenment era were trying to give a different idea of Europe and civilization entirely, in the aspects of economics, politics, and sovereign states. Europe had a long tradition of monarchies, and the Enlightenment celebrated the idea of peaceful commerce among sovereign states, an independent collection of states. This period emphasized state rule by monarchies, with the idea that no one state is going to take the sole power.

6. Professor Mahoney passed out the chapter from Benedict Anderson’s book on Imagined Communities which we will be discussing on Monday, February 7th, in connection with the section on the Middle Ages and “Europe as Christendom” (pages 26-38 of The History of the Idea of Europe).