Cleon's Speech:

• Democracy cannot rule an empire
  • changing your minds about Mytilene illustrates that
    • you think that because in Athens you can afford not to worry about conspiracies, you can do the same amongst your allies
      • but your empire is a tyranny and you have unwilling subjects who continually plot against you
      • they obey you only because you are stronger
• decisions must stand firm
  • a city with bad laws is better if they are strict than a city with good laws if they are unenforced
• people are better off if they are sensible but uneducated than if they are clever but lack self-control
  • the common people govern better than the more intelligent
    • intellectuals love to be wiser than the laws and to win a debate
    • common people are content to think their laws wiser than they
    • common people are not interested in making too-clever speeches
• We should follow the commoner and not be carried away by cleverness
  • I have the same opinion I had before (kill the Mytilenians)
    • A delay only helps the wrongdoer
    • the victim's anger is allayed
    • right after a crime, the victim metes out a harsher penalty
• No one should be opposing me
  • we already decreed to kill them
  • the injustice the Mytilenians committed is not good for us
  • their injustice does not harm our allies but ourselves
    • either my opponent is going to say the opposite-that the Mytilenians helped us by revolting and harmed our allies-or he was bribed!
• Athens has hurt herself by cultivating fine rhetoric
  • the rhetorical contests you hold have formed bad habits
    • you enjoy looking at spectacles
  • real action is not your wont
  • you consider what to do in the future on the basis of fine speeches
    • fine speeches are not about what is possible, but what sounds good
  • you think that what is presented in speech is more certain than what you see with your own eyes
  • you have a taste for the unusual and spurn the ordinary, the common-sensical
  • you all want to be effective speakers above all
    • even if you are not, you try to compete with effective speakers
  • you applaud the fine speaker's point before it is made just to appear clever yourselves
    • but you do not see the point's consequences
  • you want to hear about things extraordinary
    • but you do not understand what happens under your noses
  • you are so engrossed in what sounds good that you resemble art critics more than people deliberating about public policy
• The Mytilenians have done us a greater harm than any other city
  • cities which rebel because they cannot stand us are understandable
  • cities that rebel because they are forced to are understandable
  • But the Mytilenians were not forced to rebel and they had sweet conditions
  • THEREFORE, they are worse than others who rebel
  • it is not even a rebellion
  • rebellions can only come from oppressed people.
  • the Mytilenians were not repressed
  • BUT they have joined our worst enemies
  • THEREFORE, they are guilty not of rebellion but of betrayal
  • their action is far worse than if they had rebelled simply to increase their own power.
• They did not learn from others' example
  • we put down every rebellion of their neighbors
  • their prosperity made them arrogant and reckless
• We should never have given them their extraordinary privileges
  • too great fortune leads to temerity and recklessness
  • they would not have waxed so insolent had we not made them so great
  • humans generally look with contempt on those who serve them and look up to those who never give in to them
• THEREFORE, they should be punished as they deserve!
  • the commoners as well as the oligarchs
  • the commoners betrayed you as much as the oligarchs
• Consider what your allies will do
  • if you treat those who rebel because they are forced to the same as those who rebel on their own, everyone will rebel on their own
    • if they win, they are free
    • if they lose, they are treated in no irreparable manner
  • if you create a situation like that, one city after another will rebel
    • if we put down the rebellion, we get a weaker subject city less capable of paying tribute
    • if we fail, we lose all the tribute and gain new enemies and waste our time and effort fighting
• We must not, THEREFORE, give our allies any reason to be hopeful about rebellion:we must punish the Mytilenians!!
  • we must not let them think that they can rebel, then if they lose, bribe us into letting them off easy
  • nor must we let them think that we are soft and forgiving of human error
    • they conspired against us of their own free will
    • only involuntary wrongs are to be pardoned
• THEREFORE< we should stick to our previous decision to kill them all
  • do not give in to pity
  • do not give in to your delight in good speeches
  • do not give in to your sense of fairness
    • They will not have pity on us
    • the pleasure of a good speech is lightweight in comparison to the price we will pay if we are wooed by sweet speech
    • we should only be fair to our friends
• Summary:
  • following my advice will be justice for the Mytilenians and in your interest!
  • pardoning them will not win their favor
    • it would be tantamount to admitting that they were right to rebel
    • if it is right that they rebel, we ought not to rule them
    • if your empire is unjust, if you want to hold it anyway, you must be harsh or give up the empire
  • if they had won, they would have tried to eliminate you
    • therefore, since you won, you should treat them as they would have treated you

Diodotus' speech:

• haste and anger are inimical to good judgement (i.e. we should not act hastily or angrily)
  • haste is usually thoughtless
  • anger is ill-formed and narrow-minded
• discussion is necessary for action (i.e. we need to discuss now, and carefully)
  • If one does not want to discuss the matter, he is either
    • stupid
      • because there is no other way to consider the future
    • or has ulterior motives
      • because he wants to persuade you to do something awful, but offers slander instead of good argument
• accusing opponent of being bribed is worst of all (a "loaded-question")
  • no defense against it
    • if one prevails, suspicion still there
    • if one fails, one is thought stupid AND unjust
  • such accusations do the city no good
    • it loses advisors who fear such accusations
• People like my opponent Cleon would do the city the most good if they could not speak well
  • they would then persuade the city to fewer errors
  • he terrifies those who would speak against him
• good advice should no more be rewarded than bad advice
  • rewarding leads to good speakers seeking popularity against their better judgment
  • also leads unsuccessful speakers to seek popularity by gratifying the people instead of giving good advice
• P72
• But we should reward the advisors
• Athens distrusts its advisors
• and so no one could possibly benefit Athens openly
  • people will suspect he has something to gain.
• Orators should show more foresight than commoners
  • orators are held accountable
  • commoners are not held accountable for decisions they make based on orators' advice
  • commoners punish an orator for one piece of bad advice rather than themselves, who made the decision
    • IMPLICIT PREMISE: whoever makes/takes part in the decision should be blamed
• Not killing the Mitylenians is to Athens' advantage in the future
• 73
  • the death penalty has been handed down for lesser crimes than the Mytilenians' current crime
    • as time goes on, more and more crimes are punished by the death penalty
      • because people continued violating the laws, the penalties will have gotten stiffer.
    • but people still commit crimes
    • thus, the death penalty does not work to deter crimes
  • motives for crime are passions: desire and hope
    • poverty compels people to be daring
    • tuche (fortune) also contributes by tempting people to take risks
  • cities are especially susceptible to these motives
    • greater desires
    • acting with others leads people to have greater hope
  • therefore cities will always be tempted to rebel, and it is foolish to think we can deter them.
  • given that cities will inevitably rebel anyway
    • and that the death penalty leaves them no option to quit before they have either utterly succeeded or utterly failed
    • the death penalty will only make rebellions harder to put down.
• 74
  • if we kill them, we will lose revenue from Mytilene
• We should look for a way to impose moderate penalties and insure revenue from Mytilene in the future
  • rigor of law will not work to contain them
  • we must watch them closely
  • they had a good reason to rebel: they wanted autonomy
  • if we want to keep them in our power, we must make them not think of rebelling
  • we should lay the blame upon as few of them as possible (i.e. find scapegoats?)
• if we punish them all, in the future the democrats of other cities will not support us once there has been a rebellion, because they know they will be punished along with the oligarchs who started it all.
• even if the democrats are guilty, we should pretend they are not, so that they can perhaps support us in the future
• 75
• I am not arguing for pity or fairness, but for Athens' advantage
• let the Mytilenians live and take your time punishing the ringleaders
• P 78-the leaders, not the followers are to blame-end of §55